Berryz Kobo - "Golden Chinatown/Sayonara Usotsuki na Watashi"

[Anderei]

i hope u like gold



Outfit preview courtesy of Chinami:





Captain's and Miyabi's are strapless:

[NekoKaiSai]

From what can be seen they're actually pretty cute.

[Haru]

this sounds weird <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whatthe:' />

[star]

I really like the song, and those outfits are cute. (The skirt reminds me of my Taurus design from the SSMU contest.)

[rob]

Is this the right place to discuss this? I dunno.



Did you guys recently hear about the vice-captain Miyabi thing?



How Berryz hearing that C-ute were going to perform at budoukan and how they were all kinda depressed about it?



I can't help but feel like Captain has taken the blame upon herself for berryz "failing" when compared with the other Hello! Kids group..... it all leads me to think that Captain might be leaving the group.



It's a shame if she does feel like this because the difference between C-ute and Berryz is that C-ute get awesome/sexy/cool/lovely songs to sing with well done MVs and Berryz get blue capes and shit songs.

[al kusanagi]

If anything, Momoko is leaving. There is zero reason for her not to be sub-leader. And I mean MOMOKO, the hard working college student that everyone says is really responsible and serious behind the scenes, not that fucking cartoon character Momochi, unless she just plans on not being around much longer. She's put all the time and effort into getting her teaching degree, she's obviously going to want to use it.

[rob]

Berryz are dead in the water, I know it, you know it, EVERYONE knows it.



We're all just sat here waiting for the group to flat line.

[Noa]

Honestly, as long as Miyabi and Risako stay around, I don't much care what happens with the group.

[Purin-chama]

In the first DVD magazine with Tsunclub (33), Miyabi asked the question why Saki never does anything to discipline the members when they get out of control. If I remember correctly, she went on to say that if she, Miyabi, yelled at them, it wouldn't have as much as an effect as Saki yelling at them, since Miyabi is not the Captain. I figured Saki just made her sub-captain because she would do stuff that Saki feels uncomfortable doing. They always seemed two of the closest members within the group anyways.

[aine]

Intlwota did an interesting writeup about this here. It basically agrees with all the points that you guys already made.



Golden Chinatown is very forgettable. Sorry.

[YuuakuRisa]

[quote name='Myst' timestamp='1367903298' post='151112']

In the first DVD magazine with Tsunclub (33), Miyabi asked the question why Saki never does anything to discipline the members when they get out of control. If I remember correctly, she went on to say that if she, Miyabi, yelled at them, it wouldn't have as much as an effect as Saki yelling at them, since Miyabi is not the Captain. I figured Saki just made her sub-captain because she would do stuff that Saki feels uncomfortable doing. They always seemed two of the closest members within the group anyways.

[/quote]





Saki looks like the type that wouldn't yell to show disproval but the type that shows in other ways. Ways that are hard to catch unless you know her well.

[Melon]

I don't know whether to be happy or sad Berryz is doomed has replaced Morning Musume is doomed in the BBS doomsday prophecies.

[rob]

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1367940549' post='151152']

I don't know whether to be happy or sad Berryz is doomed has replaced Morning Musume is doomed in the BBS doomsday prophecies.

[/quote]



MM being doomed was just a bad case of rose tinted glasses IIRC.



Berryz being doomed is an ugly.... sad... depressing fact.

[showraniy]

Meh, idols are doomed by nature of being idols, so no cares had over here. But in all seriousness, I'd love to see Berryz really succeed on the same scale as C-ute and MM. It's a little depressing for them to be so left out when they've been around just as long.

[al kusanagi]

After reading their blogs, now I'm just pissed. They're just whining and begging. Berryz had so much just handed to them. They were the little golden girls when they debuted and got tons of attention over the years while C-ute was ignored and neglected. Now C-ute completely works their asses off and the tables turn, and Berryz is suddenly "But we're technically the same group! We wanna got to Budokan too!!! Wahhhh!!!" It's like the favored sibling getting jealous because the other finally got some attention. They need to just shut up, stop being attention whores, and be happy for C-ute for once.

[tsukinobyouin]

While I do have to agree a bit about the whining, I'm curious. What exactly does C-ute do differently from Berryz? I mean specifically the girls themselves. I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm honestly curious - because it seems like a lot of the problems are beyond their control. The songs, costumes, appearances, events - that's all out of their hands. What have the C-ute members themselves done to win over more fans?

[yuzuriha]

Thank you for taking the words right out of my mouth.

[Melon]

C-ute doesn't have an annoying TV personality by name of Momoko.



They also have the better name.



They are a dance oriented group, which seems to be pretty popular right now in idol-dom, and they sing decently for idol singers. Despite being idols, they have the air of a normal pop group right now, PV wise. They wear sexy outfits but don't play up the UGUU KAWAII.



I think they all do their own sorts of promotion individually that would bring in other sorts of fans. I don't think BK has much exposure outside of Momoko?



And Berryz was tied with that extremely popular anime awhile back. It's not like they didn't get chances. Besides, like Al said, they debuted first. C-ute was HP Kids when they did their huge group song back when Nacho had her turtle scandal. They were essentially the cast-aways that didn't make it into BK, and then they had people up and leave their group (which, for the wota fans/sales, is a blow to a smaller idol group. Most wota I've seen stan the girl, not so much the group).

[al kusanagi]

Effort and attitude, and just the general personalities of the members.



Compare things like their performances, interviews, or even blogs. C-ute puts way more effort into everything they do.



Part of Berryz charm is the differences between their members, but over half the group just give so few fucks that they are incapable of putting out the energy and effort C-ute does. It's good that they realize they're stagnant and just cruising along and want to change, but I just don't see them having the capacity to compete with the new supercharged C-ute.

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1367953346' post='151174']

C-ute doesn't have an annoying TV personality by name of Momoko.



They also have the better name.



They are a dance oriented group, which seems to be pretty popular right now in idol-dom, and they sing decently for idol singers. Despite being idols, they have the air of a normal pop group right now, PV wise. They wear sexy outfits but don't play up the UGUU KAWAII.



I think they all do their own sorts of promotion individually that would bring in other sorts of fans. I don't think BK has much exposure outside of Momoko?



And Berryz was tied with that extremely popular anime awhile back. It's not like they didn't get chances. Besides, like Al said, they debuted first. C-ute was HP Kids when they did their huge group song back when Nacho had her turtle scandal. They were essentially the cast-aways that didn't make it into BK, and then they had people up and leave their group (which, for the wota fans/sales, is a blow to a smaller idol group. Most wota I've seen stan the girl, not so much the group).

[/quote]



This stuff all makes sense to me and I agree with all of it, but none of this stuff is within the control of the C-ute members or Berryz members themselves (aside from arguably Momoko, depending on how much that persona is pushed by the agency vs herself). They don't get to pick their songs, PVs, promo events, etc. All of this would fall under "C-ute is better managed" rather than "C-ute members just work harder."





[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1367953586' post='151175']

Effort and attitude, and just the general personalities of the members.



Compare things like their performances, interviews, or even blogs. C-ute puts way more effort into everything they do.



Part of Berryz charm is the differences between their members, but over half the group just give so few fucks that they are incapable of putting out the energy and effort C-ute does. It's good that they realize they're stagnant and just cruising along and want to change, but I just don't see them having the capacity to compete with the new supercharged C-ute.

[/quote]



Hmm, I think "personalities" is pretty subjective and I think all that is kind of vague, but I do at least see what you mean with blogs. I can see how it would be hard to be super enthused and excited when the songs you get are all over the place, you're constantly dressed in derpy costumes, and only one of your members ever gets to be on TV. It's true that they had a lot of opportunities when they were young, but it seems like UFA has kind of fumbled with what to do with them as adults while with C-ute they clearly knew what was going to work.

[showraniy]

Maasa has always given me the impression that she's given up on whatever dreams she's had as an idol. She just sits in the group really awkwardly and unpleasantly. Other than her, it seems like Berryz members care, but I much prefer C-ute based on how they've been blazing this year to Hell and back. Starting with Kimi wa Jitensha, they've just had a string of fantastic releases. IMO, Berryz started off much stronger with songs and voices, but the tables have since turned.

[Purin-chama]

Being in as long as the kids have, I feel like they should have some say. Sayu has been in about the same amount of time and doesn't she get some of her requests granted? Maybe C-ute saw what worked for them, and tried pushing their image in a certain way. They are pretty consistent with song type compared to Berryz.



I do agree with the personalities thing though. Even before they were C-ute, you could tell Erika, Maimi, and Megumi wanted to debut and worked towards it. Each member has pinpointed their strengths and weaknesses and tried to work on them. Why did Chisato become a lead all of the sudden? She always has had a better voice than Maimi, and the last year or so, they have been pushing her like crazy. Her confidence in performances has greatly changed since their debut. Saki turned her attention towards dancing and she is probably one of the better dancers in H!P now. I feel like part of these things were brought on by the leadership of the groups more than anything. I'm not saying Captain is bad, but I think Maimi points things out more and tries to get the girls to work harder.

[rob]

@TnB I'm curious as to how you know the girls have zero input upon the song choices, dance moves etc. We aren't really sure how much of an input they have or don't have. AFAIK.



I have a new theory, I think this time next year Saki and Momoko will graduate and two new members of the 17+ age range will join, both will be kickass dancers and singers and Berryz will aim for a far more sexy image.



The years following will see, Yurina, Maasa and then Chinami graduate with again new 18-21 age range members joining.



Just a theory!

[star]

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1367953346' post='151174']

And Berryz was tied with that extremely popular anime awhile back.

[/quote]

Inazuma 11 got them far, and so did Prett Cure. Berryz is still tied to Pretty Cure, since Asian Celebration is being used as the theme for the new movie.





I've always loved Berryz way more than C-ute. I'm sorry, but C-ute has never appealed to me. I am very biased to Berryz, as they are what brought me to H!P, but in general, I think they have cooler members. The problem is C-ute has been getting way more attention management wise, and they've had way more promotion. Berryz doesn't control anything that they do. They don't decide on songs, PVs, constumes, or anything else,s o all of this is out of their control.

[Farrah]

To me, C-ute's success over Berryz has less to do with the members and more to do with having a much more marketable image. They're a dance group, which is a big plus in post-halyu Japan, they have more mature songs and in general have a less idol-like image. I think that's a big part of why you hear so many female screams in their audience compared to other H!P groups. I do agree that many members (okay, basically everyone aside from Momoko) in Berryz seem very complacent, but I also think that's because they know they hit their peak a long time ago and UFP has no idea how to market them, and perhaps no interest in making them more popular - they're an IDOL idol group and unless you're AKB that doesn't really get you much mainstream appeal, and UFP is probably comfortable with their current level of popularity, seeing as they have a loyal fanbase. C-ute's image for a long time has been much more along the lines of what's popular in current jpop (both musically (dance music) and in how they're presented). They're like a baby Japanese Kara. I really don't think it's fair to place the blame entirely on Berryz when UFA have been wildly throwing random concepts at them since, hell, 2008, at least.



Honestly, I think this is great. Part of what made golden era H!P so great was so insanely competitive it was - everyone was battling it out for screen time and constantly giving their very best to get whatever attention they could manage. Current H!P could use a major dose of that. I want idol battle royale! These girls have been getting way too soft for way too long - remember all the stories OG members have told about fights in the dressing room and how Yuko basically hated everyone and Asuka was basically bullied out of the group because who wants a god damn 13 year old hoarding all the spotlight?



BUT - I think we all need to realize that idol groups are really only worth as much as their agency puts into them. Any extra work on the part of the Berryz girls will be useless if UFP doesn't try to, you know. Advertise them to someone beyond their limited wota fanbase. Sayu had been pimping Momusu every time she had an appearance on TV, but in the end, nothing payed off like UFP's new, more aggressive promotional strategies.

[bowbow0720]

Their new outfits look like the one AKB had for Flying Get.

[kira]

After looking it up (because I forgot what they looked like), I don't see it past the gold colour for the outfits. The skirts aren't even remotely similar from what I can tell.

[Melon]

Their sales aren't that bad. I looked them up and they're doing better than Faires, Passpo, ect. Idolling sells more than them though.



They have Pretty Cure coming up too. Small time doesn't get that sort of push.

[Anderei]

I think that they'll just end it instead of adding new people when the time comes. The fact they've lasted so long is an accomplishment in and of itself in the idol world.

[rob]

[quote name='Anderei' timestamp='1367986949' post='151216']

I think that they'll just end it instead of adding new people when the time comes. The fact they've lasted so long is an accomplishment in and of itself in the idol world.

[/quote]



True, still it's a shame because I feel like Miyabi and Risako are just coming into what "should" be their golden era.