Berryz performing Budokan in November

[AEUGNewtype]

"Wota" has become far too benevolent, especially among the little overseas fan kids, they call themselves a wota like its the most prestigious thing you could appoint yourself to be in the idol fandom that makes you better than all the other people in the fandom. Makes me throw up in my mouth every time I see it, but its everywhere. It really has no negative connotation among these kids, just like how anime tards proudly called (call?) themselves "otaku" when it has a super-negative connotation in Japan.

[showraniy]

Where are you finding these fans?

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='showraniy' timestamp='1369102472' post='152389']

Where are you finding these fans?

[/quote]

Facebook groups, JPH!P, real life :(

[YuuakuRisa]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1369102610' post='152390']

[quote name='showraniy' timestamp='1369102472' post='152389']

Where are you finding these fans?

[/quote]

Facebook groups, JPH!P, real life :(

[/quote]





A lot of the H!P "fans" on Youtube call themselves Wota too... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... deways.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sideways:' />

[Kahoryn]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1369101688' post='152386']

"Wota" has become far too benevolent, especially among the little overseas fan kids, they call themselves a wota like its the most prestigious thing you could appoint yourself to be in the idol fandom that makes you better than all the other people in the fandom. Makes me throw up in my mouth every time I see it, but its everywhere. It really has no negative connotation among these kids, just like how anime tards proudly called (call?) themselves "otaku" when it has a super-negative connotation in Japan.

[/quote]

I completely 100% agree with this. I absolutely detest that people call themselves wota or otaku when it's NOT A GOOD THING. That's like calling yourself a dick. Although people do that too, or call themselves dorks/nerds/geeks/assholes/etc. Idk.

[Mukuro]

No offense, but why would you want to call yourself a wota in the first place? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/sick.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sick:' />

[rob]

ahem.



Some educating needs to be happening at this point.



オタク　is NOT a bad thing necessarily, it purely means you're a fan/enthusiast of something. It is NOT super-negative in Japan.



It "can" be negative, depends on the context it is used. NEET for example has a super-negative connotation but otaku doesn't.



There are train otakus, game otakus, electronics otakus hell even lunch box otakus. The general opinion in Japan is that it's totally fine to like whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone.



I understand where you are coming from, in regards to youtube comments and young people using Japanese words without fully understanding what they mean, but it's no good to be the opposite of that and criticize someone for using a word incorrectly and then to use that word incorrectly at the same time.



The reason the words wota and otaku exist is simple, wota are more extreme than otaku. Whatever it is that wota are interested in, they are OBSESSED with, it rules their lives, it's all they do, every day, all day.

Otaku is simply someone with a hobby.

[pandapanda]

[quote name='Mukuro' timestamp='1369104318' post='152397']

No offense, but why would you want to call yourself a wota in the first place? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/sick.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sick:' />

[/quote]

<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... kowota.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wota:' />



Anime jerks really get on my nerves. I always say I want to meet more people who like Japanese culture. Then I meet them. And run the other way.

[Kahoryn]

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1369105064' post='152400']

ahem.



Some educating needs to be happening at this point.

[/quote]

<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />

*takes a deep breath*

I feel better. I am knowledge now.

[tsukinobyouin]

The term "wota" is originally meant to be a positive term. It was invented by idol fans to distinguish themselves from other types of otaku. They don't call themselves wota and mean it in a derogatory way. The word wasn't invented by other people in Japan looking for a way to insult that group of people, so it's not quite the same as, say, proudly calling yourself a douchebag.



In general when foreign fans call themselves wota, they ARE wota. They do all the same shit the Japanese wota do and they're proud of this behavior. Remember though, in Japan there are different levels of wota too. We tend to associate the term with the worst of the worst behavior, but some of them are just annoying as opposed to all out creepy. I'm sure sometimes there are foreign fans who call themselves wota simply thinking the word means "fan" - those people are usually young and will learn. But most of them... are just wota. You can't really hate on them for using the appropriate term.



Anyway BERRYZ. Something about them. >.>

[Anderei]

They're performing at Budokan or something like that. I'm not quite sure.

[Kahoryn]

That's cool. What's Budokan? j/k i'm not gonna troll (maybe)

[pandapanda]

[quote name='Kahoryn' timestamp='1369145284' post='152448']

That's cool. What's Budokan?

[/quote]



Irony is that my dad will talk about "Cheap Trick at Budokan" live album or something all the time and I used to ignore him. Now I'm like "So guess where *C-ute and Berryz are going?? BUDOKAN!!!!! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nceman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' /> "



Now he has a shred of respect for them. A very small shred.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1369105064' post='152400']

ahem.



Some educating needs to be happening at this point.



オタク　is NOT a bad thing necessarily, it purely means you're a fan/enthusiast of something. It is NOT super-negative in Japan.



It "can" be negative, depends on the context it is used. NEET for example has a super-negative connotation but otaku doesn't.



There are train otakus, game otakus, electronics otakus hell even lunch box otakus. The general opinion in Japan is that it's totally fine to like whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone.



I understand where you are coming from, in regards to youtube comments and young people using Japanese words without fully understanding what they mean, but it's no good to be the opposite of that and criticize someone for using a word incorrectly and then to use that word incorrectly at the same time.



The reason the words wota and otaku exist is simple, wota are more extreme than otaku. Whatever it is that wota are interested in, they are OBSESSED with, it rules their lives, it's all they do, every day, all day.

Otaku is simply someone with a hobby.

[/quote]



I have to partially disagree. Mainly with your last sentence (which kinda contradicts It "can" be negative).

Otaku don't have such a neutral image at all. Densha Otoko certainly helped it and lately there's a "let's help these guys get out of their hole" attitude, but they are still belittled by "normal" people.

You should have also mentioned that the term comes from お宅, which is "your home". And in the fandom context, it basically means "somebody who's always at home [unless his obsession makes him go out]". At least that's where the idea of the word otaku comes from. Of course there are also more, well, liberal otaku that aren't ultra-fanatics, but those are only a part of the people that call themselves otaku.

Otaku also certainly has the connotation, that there's some obsession going on and it's not just a hobby.



Of course language is a constantly moving thing and terms change over time, but to say otaku is a rather harmless word in Japan, I'd say that's wrong.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1369148252' post='152463']

I have to partially disagree. Mainly with your last sentence (which kinda contradicts It "can" be negative).

Otaku don't have such a neutral image at all. Densha Otoko certainly helped it and lately there's a "let's help these guys get out of their hole" attitude, but they are still belittled by "normal" people.

You should have also mentioned that the term comes from お宅, which is "your home". And in the fandom context, it basically means "somebody who's always at home [unless his obsession makes him go out]". At least that's where the idea of the word otaku comes from. Of course there are also more, well, liberal otaku that aren't ultra-fanatics, but those are only a part of the people that call themselves otaku.

Otaku also certainly has the connotation, that there's some obsession going on and it's not just a hobby.



Of course language is a constantly moving thing and terms change over time, but to say otaku is a rather harmless word in Japan, I'd say that's wrong.

[/quote]

You basically just saved me the trouble of posting all that, thank you.



I remember seeing a thing within the last year where a bunch of the netizens from 2ch put together a chart from answers people gave of which realms of otaku were more likely to be the creepy, horrible kind, and which ones were more possibly accepted by normal people. Things like trains, bicycles, baseball stats, model building, and architecture are also forms of otaku, which generally garner less shit from the public, but of course, idols, anime, vocaloid, etc. were at the part of the chart that was basically for those that are almost surely outcast from society. The word has a high level of possible negative connotation not matter what context, but some are more quickly turned negative than others.



I even have a few friends in Japan who are into idols (female, mind you) who literally have to hide the fact that they enjoy idols from their co-workers and everyday people because they are ridiculed and treated negatively when they show any kind of liking for idols. They work normal office jobs and basically just have to put on a face to go into work or public in general to hide that they like idols.

[showraniy]

Doesn't "wota" come from "wotaku," an attempt to personalize the word and therefore change its meaning? Kind of like "the N word" and "nigga." I heard this somewhere and the explanation made sense, but I'm just trying to verify.

[tsukinobyouin]

^ I thought I remembered hearing that somewhere too, but I couldn't find a source to verify.

[yuzuriha]

I saw it in some wikipedia article somewhere too, but no idea where exactly.

[Haru]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku#In_Japan

In recent years some "idol otaku" have been naming themselves simply as Wota (ヲタ?) as a way to differentiate from traditional otaku. The word was derived by dropping the last mora, leaving ota (オタ?) and then replacing o (オ?) with the identically sounding character wo (ヲ?), leaving the pronunciation unchanged

[rob]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1369148252' post='152463']

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1369105064' post='152400']

ahem.



Some educating needs to be happening at this point.



オタク　is NOT a bad thing necessarily, it purely means you're a fan/enthusiast of something. It is NOT super-negative in Japan.



It "can" be negative, depends on the context it is used. NEET for example has a super-negative connotation but otaku doesn't.



There are train otakus, game otakus, electronics otakus hell even lunch box otakus. The general opinion in Japan is that it's totally fine to like whatever you want as long as you're not hurting anyone.



I understand where you are coming from, in regards to youtube comments and young people using Japanese words without fully understanding what they mean, but it's no good to be the opposite of that and criticize someone for using a word incorrectly and then to use that word incorrectly at the same time.



The reason the words wota and otaku exist is simple, wota are more extreme than otaku. Whatever it is that wota are interested in, they are OBSESSED with, it rules their lives, it's all they do, every day, all day.

Otaku is simply someone with a hobby.

[/quote]



I have to partially disagree. Mainly with your last sentence (which kinda contradicts It "can" be negative).

Otaku don't have such a neutral image at all. Densha Otoko certainly helped it and lately there's a "let's help these guys get out of their hole" attitude, but they are still belittled by "normal" people.

You should have also mentioned that the term comes from お宅, which is "your home". And in the fandom context, it basically means "somebody who's always at home [unless his obsession makes him go out]". At least that's where the idea of the word otaku comes from. Of course there are also more, well, liberal otaku that aren't ultra-fanatics, but those are only a part of the people that call themselves otaku.

Otaku also certainly has the connotation, that there's some obsession going on and it's not just a hobby.



Of course language is a constantly moving thing and terms change over time, but to say otaku is a rather harmless word in Japan, I'd say that's wrong.

[/quote]



I know the history of the word but it seems the word has gone beyond that original meaning now, there is a boy in my class that is called a soccer-otaku, because he is literally obsessed with soccer. He doesn't just play it, he watches and reads about it too.

To me, being obsessed with soccer in the way he is, just seems like a hobby, maybe I use the word hobby in a different way to what it's supposed to be?

Maybe the AKB boom has made the word otaku seem a bit more positive?

[fujii hina]

The term "wota" is a contraction of Momusu - otaku, Mowota.



Otaku is a bit more contentious. So I won't go into that one.



Also the 48's boom hasn't helped to make the image of idol otaku seem positive at all. Arson, theft, and sarin gas attack threats do that to the image of any group of people.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='fujii hina' timestamp='1369315151' post='152771']

The term "wota" is a contraction of Momusu - otaku, Mowota.

[/quote]



I'm not sure if wikipedia is a very reliable source for such a thing and chosing it as a base for your statement is a good idea, especially since the otaku article contradicts what you said:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otaku#In_Japan



Wotagei is glorious to watch, though. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... kowota.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wota:' />

[fujii hina]

My Japanese reading skills are possibly as reliable as either wikipedia articles but when the wota refer to themselves as モヲタ=Mowota、ベリヲタ=Beriwota、スマヲタ=Sumawota and ℃ヲタ=℃wota , I think that lends some credibility to the article I referred to.



It makes more sense to me that it came from a contraction of a contraction than a whimsical choice (the otaku article cites no other reasons for the changing of the syllable sound from 'o' to 'wo' than phonetic similarities) and I can't imagine coming up with 'wota' from idol otaku.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='fujii hina' timestamp='1369343033' post='152842']

My Japanese reading skills are possibly as reliable as either wikipedia articles but when the wota refer to themselves as モヲタ=Mowota、ベリヲタ=Beriwota、スマヲタ=Sumawota and ℃ヲタ=℃wota , I think that lends some credibility to the article I referred to.



It makes more sense to me that it came from a contraction of a contraction than a whimsical choice (the otaku article cites no other reasons for the changing of the syllable sound from 'o' to 'wo' than phonetic similarities) and I can't imagine coming up with 'wota' from idol otaku.

[/quote]



My main problem was that neither article says which came first, the H!P-centered versions or the more general versions, so we can't say for sure if one term develop from the other.

[Melon]

I have heard wota used on anime blogs before, not exclusive to idols. I think the HP ones came from it.

[rokun]

I don't post out here very often, but thought I'd throw a couple cents into the discussion... Going by the Japanese answer and dictionary sites hatena and kotobank, which of themselves may not necessarily be more reliable than wikipedia but are at least composed by Japanese (and are places I often refer to for expressions I don't know), they both agree that "wota" by itself is a term most often used to differentiate Akihabara otaku from other types of otaku. Kotobank mentioned how the word started getting picked up on variety shows around 2004.



Hatena also elaborates in the "wotaku" entry on the reason "wo" is used, giving points that it started as a bit of rebellious self-mockery (I do know Japanese wota do have a bit of fun laughing at and mocking themselves and the fandom), has a more derogatory meaning than just "otaku", and interestingly is used to indicate scorn of other types of otaku. "Morning Musume wota" never have fallen into that trap, have we? ;)



I honestly had heard a long time ago as fujii hina said that it was borne from "Mo-otaku", but have a feeling it was just a bit of self-centric bragging by MoMusu fans back then, when MM was bigger, and also might have meant to show a bit of scorn to otaku of other kinds... In any case, there seems little Japanese evidence that it has any direct link to MoMusu.



But yes, this thread was about Berryz and Budoukan, right? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> well, there's my avatar...

[Trinu]

Yeah, so... could someone enlighten me why is this such a big deal? They already performed at Saitama, which is a much bigger venue than Budokan, so... 
 
I know Budokan is important for artists in Japan and all, but once you've gone bigger, shouldn't you try and go even bigger? lol

[kira]

I would assume it's because they haven't done a big venue on their own in a while (a quick search tells me the last time they did a big venue was around 06-07). The only time they go to the bigger venues are when they do all of H!P or a MM graduation concert.
 
So I would consider it a big deal, since they shrank down to the smaller venues in recent years and have been given an opportunity to step up to a big one again.

[rob]

Budoukan isn't about numbers, size of the crowd etc. It's a very special building for Japanese people. It's extremely busy, I would wager not a single day goes by without it being used.
 
So for YOU and YOUR group to be using the budoukan for that day is a pretty big achievement, if you perform at budoukan you can literally retire afterwards and be satisfied that you "made" it.

[showraniy]

So I guess it's something like Madison Square Garden then. Not anything special as a venue, but it's in the heart of Manhattan and busy as hell at all times, so to book a gig there is much bigger than the crowd itself. I didn't know they'd performed at Saitama though. I had no idea they'd performed anywhere big at all, so that's good to know.