Koharu Graduating From H!P

[Pucchi-Mo]

[quote name='PQ' post='69247' date='Sep 22 2009, 04:27 PM'][quote name='anpanman' post='69244' date='Sep 22 2009, 02:51 PM'][quote name='PQ' post='69237' date='Sep 22 2009, 01:46 PM']UFA had nothing to do with Koharu leaving, Tsunku did and Koharu didn't know about it.[/quote]

Do you believe their official comments?

[/quote]



You make it sound like this is a bunch of conspiracy theories. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />



[quote name='TightWetPucchi' post='69245' date='Sep 22 2009, 03:00 PM'][quote name='PQ' post='69237' date='Sep 22 2009, 09:46 AM']If she knew about it before hand her management wouldn't have added her into next years Morning Musume calender and they would have given fans more notice for when they ordered their H!O concert tickets.[/quote]



I think products are difficult in that situation. They may have to do the shoot for the photos quite a bit in advance, edit, check for errors, and they have to print in advance. I don't imagine they'd be able to just say, "ok, she is mysteriously not in the calendar" ..that you are seeing previews for in August, because we need to promote it early ~think nothing of it~ (yet)



If we want to talk about girls not being around and still in a future product, I present to you Kanashimi Twilight on Platinum 9 DISC.

[/quote]



I understand but I was just making a point. But blah~ D:

[/quote]

I'm just saying it can happen that way and it did recently. I think you made some great points to anpanman because he assumed that she wouldn't be with her company after graduation.

[tsukinobyouin]

Well damn. I thought I'd be happier about this but I'm just kind of different. Like other people have mentioned, MM rarely appears anyhere that they can show off any sort of personality anymore, so they've become a lot more about the music and the performances for me. In that respect, I really like the current lineup. She's dead weight in MM in terms of singing talent, and if I had to pick one member to go it'd definately be her. But really, any member leaving means a significant change in the current lineup. There's no way there won't be auditions soon, or some member thrown in from another part of H!P.



As for the nature of her graduation, I wouldn't really call it suspicious. We should all know by now that Tsunku/UFA/the powers that be make random ass decisions that defy logic. On one hand, it seems like it would have made more sense to graduate her during her Kirarin period, when she really had a some kind of solo career to branch out to. At the same time, then they wouldn't be bringing all of her Kirarin fans into MM fandom. Now that Kirarin is over, maybe they're just unsure what to do with her within MM. It'll be interesting to see if Tsunku actually brings her back after some training with some brand new solo career or if she'll just fade into obscurity with most of the orther M-Line graduates.



In the meantime, here's hoping Eri, JunJun, or LinLin gets her solo lines in concerts! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ohyeah.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />

[sadude]

[quote name='TnB' post='69265' date='Sep 22 2009, 10:13 PM']and if I had to pick one member to go it'd definately be her.[/quote]

That's what I said. She's cute and fun to watch, but she's still very painful to listen to. I still wince when her verse comes up in Nanchatte Renai.



I like the remaining 8, though I do think that 8 is too many for a group. I'd be happy if they just pared down for the next few years without adding more members. I wouldn't wish any of them out in particular, though.

[JPope]

Isn't any sort of "training" for Koharu just the epitome of turd-polishing at this point? All the training in the world is useless without a bit of innate talent, which KK is entirely bereft of.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Driving this off-topic for a bit, but I kind of want to bring in some JPM-type shit and talk about how the member lineup will go on from here. What do you guys think will happen? Unless they plan on keeping the unit to 8 members, I have a very strong feeling that new members are on the very near horizon. What do you think is going to happen? Are they going to add current H!P members? Auditions as always? A combination? More foreign members?



Here's what I think are possibilities, to some extent:



Kikkawa Yuu. I've said this from the day that she's entered eggs that she was going to be 9th gen. It's really obvious that Tsunku saw something in her from the audition, but didn't think she was ready to debut. So what happens? She enters "training" for a few years, and gets practice (Milky Way) before entering MM. She also, from what I've heard, has a pretty pleasant voice, is adorable as hell, and has that cute as fuck Konno personality.



Kitahara Sayaka. On the same front as Yuu, but without the audition. I find it odd that she was thrown into something (somewhat) big like Milky Way and then pushed towards the back right afterwards. We're also missing a boyish character.



Mano Erina. The girl is super cute, has nice single sales, but I don't think she has enough substance to stay solo. Frankly, even though she's getting better, she is a bad singer, and the Matsuda Seiko personality, which I actually like, doesn't fly in 2009. Especially if you don't have her voice. She's got nice promotion going, but I honestly don't see her getting anywhere solo.



Jang Dayun. AKA that Korean girl. IIRC, the original Korean audition terms said that the winner will join a group that is not Morning Musume, but how many times has UFA swerved us? >:[ She's been under wraps since she won, and I think they're about to reveal what they're going to do with her, be it entering Berryz/C-ute/MM, going solo in Korea, or whatever.



All, or some of C-ute. C-ute's roster has taken two consecutive blows, despite them being 2 small-fry members, but they are down to 5 members now. They certainly could go on with 5 members, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did some shuffling around with them.



A completely unknown backup Egg. The original concept of Morning Musume was to take a completely normal girl and turn them into a super idol. If Tsunku doesn't find many girls he likes in a new audition, I don't think him taking one of his favorite unknown eggs and putting them into the MM basket is completely out of question.



Surprise Asian members! IIRC, JunLin were brought in as "foreign exchange" members, and they're still referred to that sometimes. Maybe they're going to be shuffled out for other girls? Maybe they'll go to ICM? Maybe they'll be permanent and we'll get other foreign members? Hey, cheap labor! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ohyeah.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />



European/American auditions. ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



Maybe I should have made this a topic. Or maybe I shouldn't have posted this at all. w/e let's brainstorm.

[neshcom]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']Kikkawa Yuu. I've said this from the day that she's entered eggs that she was going to be 9th gen. It's really obvious that Tsunku saw something in her from the audition, but didn't think she was ready to debut. So what happens? She enters "training" for a few years, and gets practice (Milky Way) before entering MM. She also, from what I've heard, has a pretty pleasant voice, is adorable as hell, and has that cute as fuck Konno personality.



Kitahara Sayaka. On the same front as Yuu, but without the audition. I find it odd that she was thrown into something (somewhat) big like Milky Way and then pushed towards the back right afterwards. We're also missing a boyish character.[/quote]

I'm okay with these two. They were the best half of Milky Way.



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']Mano Erina. The girl is super cute, has nice single sales, but I don't think she has enough substance to stay solo. Frankly, even though she's getting better, she is a bad singer, and the Matsuda Seiko personality, which I actually like, doesn't fly in 2009. Especially if you don't have her voice. She's got nice promotion going, but I honestly don't see her getting anywhere solo.[/quote]

I think she'd be better in MM, I think she would bring MM down. She plays the piano for her personal career and that doesn't jive with my idea of MM. It would feel kind of uneven with all of the other members who don't.



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']Jang Dayun. AKA that Korean girl. IIRC, the original Korean audition terms said that the winner will join a group that is not Morning Musume, but how many times has UFA swerved us? >:[ She's been under wraps since she won, and I think they're about to reveal what they're going to do with her, be it entering Berryz/C-ute/MM, going solo in Korea, or whatever.[/quote]

You mean Simmin, the foreign student? Didn't she just go into the Gatas team for a bit before they shipped her back off? I think she got a blog too.



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']All, or some of C-ute. C-ute's roster has taken two consecutive blows, despite them being 2 small-fry members, but they are down to 5 members now. They certainly could go on with 5 members, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did some shuffling around with them.[/quote]

That seems like a slap in the face to MM a little bit. MM's been around much longer than C-ute and, in my mind, all of MM gets seniority over every other group, even if they aren't the oldest. Plus, we'd probably get a Summer Night Town dealy where the C-ute members become second-class-members.



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']A completely unknown backup Egg. The original concept of Morning Musume was to take a completely normal girl and turn them into a super idol. If Tsunku doesn't find many girls he likes in a new audition, I don't think him taking one of his favorite unknown eggs and putting them into the MM basket is completely out of question.[/quote]

I could see this, but I would rather him bring in a brand new, older member. Bringing in Eggs is more of a non-MM type of move, isn't it?



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']Surprise Asian members! IIRC, JunLin were brought in as "foreign exchange" members, and they're still referred to that sometimes. Maybe they're going to be shuffled out for other girls? Maybe they'll go to ICM? Maybe they'll be permanent and we'll get other foreign members? Hey, cheap labor! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ohyeah.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D/' />[/quote]

This is very likely. Then again, JJ and LL have gotten a permanent image as members in MM, but if there was a time to get them out of here, this is a very appropriate time. But I like the pandas <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... pyeyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />



[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69272' date='Sep 23 2009, 12:46 AM']European/American auditions. ahahahahahhahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa[/quote]

<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... R#>/XD.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':XD:' />

[JPope]

There will be auditions, from which one or more girls currently unconnected with the entertainment industry will be chosen to join Morning Musume. Miki Fujimoto's selection was an exception. Promoting girls from other H!P groups into Morning Musume defeats the purpose of Morning Musume, and I get the feeling that Tsunku still takes that at least somewhat seriously.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='neshcom' post='69273' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:03 AM']I think she'd be better in MM, I think she would bring MM down. She plays the piano for her personal career and that doesn't jive with my idea of MM. It would feel kind of uneven with all of the other members who don't.[/quote]

I kind of forgot about the piano thing. I guess that is sort of a waste in that perspective.



[quote name='neshcom' post='69273' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:03 AM']You mean Simmin, the foreign student? Didn't she just go into the Gatas team for a bit before they shipped her back off? I think she got a blog too.[/quote]

No, the girl who won the Tokyo Girl audition. The Korean H!P audition. The one that had a really trashy reality show.



[quote name='neshcom' post='69273' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:03 AM']That seems like a slap in the face to MM a little bit. MM's been around much longer than C-ute and, in my mind, all of MM gets seniority over every other group, even if they aren't the oldest. Plus, we'd probably get a Summer Night Town dealy where the C-ute members become second-class-members.[/quote]

If anything, it would be a slap in the face of C-ute, really. This coming from a diehard C-ute fan. I don't think it would be beyond Tsunku to do this to "spice it up." It's a step over Miki.



[quote name='neshcom' post='69273' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:03 AM']I could see this, but I would rather him bring in a brand new, older member. Bringing in Eggs is more of a non-MM type of move, isn't it?[/quote]

LinLin was an egg before she joined MM.



[quote name='neshcom' post='69273' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:03 AM']This is very likely. Then again, JJ and LL have gotten a permanent image as members in MM, but if there was a time to get them out of here, this is a very appropriate time. But I like the pandas <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... pyeyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />[/quote]

Agreed, but seeing them referred to as foreign exchange members worries me. I started thinking about it when I watched a show (Tokyo Friend Park I think?) and they were referred to as foreign exchange members instead of 8th gen.



[quote name='JPope' post='69274' date='Sep 23 2009, 01:12 AM']There will be auditions, from which one or more girls currently unconnected with the entertainment industry will be chosen to join Morning Musume. Miki Fujimoto's selection was an exception. Promoting girls from other H!P groups into Morning Musume defeats the purpose of Morning Musume, and I get the feeling that Tsunku still takes that at least somewhat seriously.[/quote]

Yeah, at the very least, I expect normal auditions, but we've had a weird turnout from every audition since 6th gen.



6th gen: Miki enters.

7th gen: No girl selected, emergency auditions held, "miracle" girl found.

8th gen: One girl, probably due to Ayumi dropping out, surprise Chinese members. (One of which was an egg.)



As much as I'd really wish to just have new girls, I think that auditions are just as much held to bring publicity to the group as they are to find new talent for the group. Surprises like these do that.

[tsukinobyouin]

Kikkawa Yuu. I've said this from the day that she's entered eggs that she was going to be 9th gen. It's really obvious that Tsunku saw something in her from the audition, but didn't think she was ready to debut. So what happens? She enters "training" for a few years, and gets practice (Milky Way) before entering MM. She also, from what I've heard, has a pretty pleasant voice, is adorable as hell, and has that cute as fuck Konno personality.



Kitahara Sayaka. On the same front as Yuu, but without the audition. I find it odd that she was thrown into something (somewhat) big like Milky Way and then pushed towards the back right afterwards. We're also missing a boyish character.

I think it's really odd that they got a huge push with Milky Way and then were totally shoved to the back. I wonder if UFA is just throwing different eggs with potential out there to see who does the best. Since most of the Shugo Chara Egg girls ended up in S/mileage and Kikka and Sayaka are still doing nothing, I take it they weren't that popular in comparison? Plus I think this one is just too good to be true. Too many people have been hoping for Kikka to be in MM for it to actually happen. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />

Mano Erina. The girl is super cute, has nice single sales, but I don't think she has enough substance to stay solo. Frankly, even though she's getting better, she is a bad singer, and the Matsuda Seiko personality, which I actually like, doesn't fly in 2009. Especially if you don't have her voice. She's got nice promotion going, but I honestly don't see her getting anywhere solo.



Jang Dayun. AKA that Korean girl. IIRC, the original Korean audition terms said that the winner will join a group that is not Morning Musume, but how many times has UFA swerved us? >:[ She's been under wraps since she won, and I think they're about to reveal what they're going to do with her, be it entering Berryz/C-ute/MM, going solo in Korea, or whatever.



All, or some of C-ute. C-ute's roster has taken two consecutive blows, despite them being 2 small-fry members, but they are down to 5 members now. They certainly could go on with 5 members, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did some shuffling around with them.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if they threw Mano or Korean Girl in C-ute to fill up the empty space. For now though, I don't see Mano being thrown into anything. She's gotten some really heavy promotion, and they already pulled her out of one unit just to do the solo thing. I think she'll at least get an album before they give up on her.

Surprise Asian members! IIRC, JunLin were brought in as "foreign exchange" members, and they're still referred to that sometimes. Maybe they're going to be shuffled out for other girls? Maybe they'll go to ICM? Maybe they'll be permanent and we'll get other foreign members? Hey, cheap labor! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ohyeah.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' />

This is what I'm most worried about (JunLin leaving). The fact that they still use that "foreign exchange" title worries me. I don't know if they do that because they want to keep them "separate" from Aika in title so as not to diminish the importance of her being added as a member, or if it really indicates they'll leave soon. It seems like a waste to spend all that time teaching them Japanese (I can't imagine they haven't been taking lessons) and dances/lyrics for old songs just to kick them out right when they're starting to really become established within the group.

[eri]

Remember when they "loaned" out Rika to Country Musume? I can see them doing that with Mano Erina but not putting her in a group permanently.

[vanillacat]

My opinion:



New blood, PLEASE. If this means bumping up a new Egg or holding auditions, then so be it.



I get it, the current line-up is stable and happy, how wonderful and lovely. It might be stable... but it's also gotten stagnant. Stale. If they throw in someone that we can actually give a shit about, whether it be for her talent or personality, the whole dynamic will get a much-needed shaking up. If someone joins that could actually be competition for the older girls, well - a little healthy competition could be good. Make them strive to be more charismatic, or something.



... Or they could just throw in Kikka, that would make me the happiest damn calm.

[AEUGNewtype]

It blows my mind how people can sit here and talk about how Koharu was dead weight and should've been the one to leave at this time when Sayumi has been dead weight for 6 FUCKING YEARS. I really don't get it. And Koharu has a great personality and enough other talent to get her many other projects like a very successful solo career and voice acting career. All things that Sayumi doesn't share. Some things I guess I'll never understand. I'm starting to think that part of the decision really was because they knew Koharu has other prospects available for her when they already know that Sayumi is pretty much worthless outside of the free pass she's been given within the group for the last 6 years. *shrug*

[staplermofo]

I have unfounded, unreasonably high hopes for multi-CD groups with cross-over members, like Country Musume featuring ____, but with foreigners.

[jochin]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='69425' date='Sep 27 2009, 05:12 PM']And Koharu has a great personality and enough other talent to get her many other projects like a very successful solo career and voice acting career. All things that Sayumi doesn't share.[/quote]



What other talent? I always felt like they gave Koharu all this Kirarin crap for no apparent reason other than her being a new and fresh member. I'm sure Sayumi would fit this "miracle" role just as well if she was given it (err, now, maybe not back in 2003 haha). Personality-wise I feel like Sayumi is actually entertaining while Koharu just kind of hangs around, but that's just me.

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='69425' date='Sep 27 2009, 04:12 AM']It blows my mind how people can sit here and talk about how Koharu was dead weight and should've been the one to leave at this time when Sayumi has been dead weight for 6 FUCKING YEARS. I really don't get it. And Koharu has a great personality and enough other talent to get her many other projects like a very successful solo career and voice acting career. All things that Sayumi doesn't share. Some things I guess I'll never understand. I'm starting to think that part of the decision really was because they knew Koharu has other prospects available for her when they already know that Sayumi is pretty much worthless outside of the free pass she's been given within the group for the last 6 years. *shrug*[/quote]



I don't think people have mostly forgotten about Sayumi because there's new blood to hate <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' /> Before Koharu joined, I feel like I saw a lot more Sayu-hate on the board.



In all seriousness though, I think this is actually a fair point, and it really all comes down to personal taste. I don't like Sayumi either, but for some reason Koharu grates on me slightly more - maybe that's just because I've been exposed to her more (via her solo career)? Like I said before, when I refer to Koharu being "dead weight' I only mean vocally, since I don't follow the group much outside of their music anymore. Vocally I think she's slightly worse than Sayumi, but not by much and it really all depends on the song. Before her anime career went into full gear, I feel like she had a little potential to get better - I remember thinking "Hey, she's gotten slightly less irritating to listen to!" during some of the Rainbow 7 album tracks. After that though, she started to use that anime voice all the time and it went downhill from there. Both Sayumi and Koharu annoy me equally in the personality department, so I guess that one is a draw. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Again, that comes down to personal taste though.



In terms of actually having some sort of role in the group though, I think at this point Sayumi and Koharu are about even. Like you said, Koharu had a successful voice acting career and her solo singles for that anime sold pretty well. But once Kirarin ended things kind of stagnated for her - no more solo singles, and no new voice acting project in sight. Sayumi has her gig on London Hearts, which is a fairly mainstream program. How many new fans that brings in though, I'm not sure, and she only got that gig recently.

[al kusanagi]

Sayumi is a comic genius with an extremely sharp wit and brilliant timing, and she'll be able to go completely mainstream like Mai Satoda has whenever she leaves MM. Hell, her and Mai would make an awesome manzai duo.



Koharu... Well, at least she's cute. Surprised no one's mentioned the article/pictures about her new PB on Sanspo: http://www.sanspo.com/geino/news/090927/gn...70506006-n1.htm

[BeForJess]

[quote name='TnB' post='69433' date='Sep 27 2009, 11:04 AM']I don't think people have mostly forgotten about Sayumi because there's new blood to hate <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' /> Before Koharu joined, I feel like I saw a lot more Sayu-hate on the board.[/quote]







A few years ago, I hated Sayumi with a firey passion. But somewhere along the way (around Rainbow 7 I think), she stopped sounding like a dying cat and learned to put on this nasally cutesy voice. As bad as that might sound, it sounded a hell of a lot better.



I'm pretty sure she got lessons of some sort also because she used to be so out of tune that they couldn't even make it sound ok for the album recordings. That problem doesn't seem to be so bad now.



She has shown a vast improvement, and really, I don't hate her anymore because no longer does she ruin the songs she is in. Damn, I used tohate her voice so bad that I spent hours making "Sayu-lite" versions of songs with her parts cut out or replaced (Yuujou, which turned out pretty good... And a failed attempt on Namida Tomaranai Houkago).



Koharu actually had more talent to begin with than Sayumi... But she got, for me, progressively worse as she did more for Kirarin. When she first joined, her voice was not too horrible in Sexy Boy and Iroppoi Jirettai. Then she did the Kirarin stuff and all the sudden she had a much more annoying sound. And now it seems like that's all she can do.



That, coupled with the annoying "Miracle" business (No, Koharu, actually the only thing about you that screams miracle is that someone as talentless as you was chosen in the first place), and also with her getting such a push from marketing or whatever in UFA, and I just couldn't stand what she became. I never had anything against her at first, only started to when I saw no improvement coupled with her being touted as something great and wonderful. And now her parts in songs have become what Sayu's parts used to be for me. So I am quite happy to see her leaving.

[JPope]

[quote name='jochin' post='69431' date='Sep 27 2009, 10:05 AM'][quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='69425' date='Sep 27 2009, 05:12 PM']And Koharu has a great personality and enough other talent to get her many other projects like a very successful solo career and voice acting career. All things that Sayumi doesn't share.[/quote]



What other talent? I always felt like they gave Koharu all this Kirarin crap for no apparent reason other than her being a new and fresh member. I'm sure Sayumi would fit this "miracle" role just as well if she was given it (err, now, maybe not back in 2003 haha). Personality-wise I feel like Sayumi is actually entertaining while Koharu just kind of hangs around, but that's just me.

[/quote]

This right here.



I never understood what there was to like about Koharu, outside of her being cute. She's annoying as hell and completely devoid of interesting personality traits. She is possibly the worst singer currently employed with a major entertainment agency. She's a worse singer than Sayumi, and Sayumi sucks quite badly. Sayumi has a likable personality, however, which Koharu has never had. And Sayumi actually becomes more entertaining and likable with each passing year, which is the complete opposite trajectory that Koharu has taken.



With that said, one could easily make an argument that Sayumi is dead weight, and has been for some time, but that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Koharu is definitely dead weight, and has been a detriment to Morning Musume from a talent and personality POV from the day she debuted. In short, I fail to see what Sayumi Michishige's value to Morning Musume has to do with Koharu Kusumi's pending graduation or the joy that a large percentage of MM fans take in it. Koharu is the very definition of dead weight.

[eri]

I liked Koharu.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='69435' date='Sep 27 2009, 01:33 PM']Sayumi is a comic genius with an extremely sharp wit and brilliant timing, and she'll be able to go completely mainstream like Mai Satoda has whenever she leaves MM. Hell, her and Mai would make an awesome manzai duo.



Koharu... Well, at least she's cute. Surprised no one's mentioned the article/pictures about her new PB on Sanspo: http://www.sanspo.com/geino/news/090927/gn...70506006-n1.htm[/quote]

This. If anything, she's one of, if not the most essential member right now. Sayu's been making constant runs on the variety circuit for months now (Check H!O. Look how many Sayu files in the TV category are uploaded, and compare it to every other member.), getting Morning Musume's name out there, which is what they absolutely need right now. More than good singers. People like to rag on how vocally untalented Morning Musume is for some reason, but after Koharu leaves, the only members who are actually can't hold their own in singing are Sayu, Aika, and maybe JunJun. Eri's a little shaky live and Reina has a tendency sing annoyingly, but they're all, for idols, good singers.



IMO, what H!P needs right now is a quality boost in promotional merchandise (Specifically PVs and CD Jackets. They need to be more eye-catching.), along with more promotion. Sayu's singe-handedly doing the second on her own.

[JPope]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69452' date='Sep 27 2009, 08:58 PM']People like to rag on how vocally untalented Morning Musume is for some reason, but after Koharu leaves, the only members who are actually can't hold their own in singing are Sayu, Aika, and maybe JunJun. Eri's a little shaky live and Reina has a tendency sing annoyingly, but they're all, for idols, good singers.[/quote]

To be fair, though, you just named fully half of the group as it will be comprised after Koharu leaves. If anything, they are about par for being idols, with a couple above average singers. I personally wish Tsunku would weigh voice talent more than he does when choosing new members, but I know the drill. Still, this is kind of like when a Supreme Court justice whose philosophy you disagree with resigns, and there's hope that the new blood will be more to your liking.



I agree with all of your points regarding Sayumi.

[neshcom]

[quote name='JPope' post='69457' date='Sep 28 2009, 12:18 AM']I personally wish Tsunku would weigh voice talent more than he does when choosing new members, but I know the drill.[/quote]

But, for the past few members, I thought Tsunku said he picked people based on vocal talent? That's the reason he said he picked Aika. At least, that what he said when there were 5/6 candidates left...

[Geof]

[quote name='neshcom' post='69458' date='Sep 27 2009, 09:23 PM'][quote name='JPope' post='69457' date='Sep 28 2009, 12:18 AM']I personally wish Tsunku would weigh voice talent more than he does when choosing new members, but I know the drill.[/quote]

But, for the past few members, I thought Tsunku said he picked people based on vocal talent? That's the reason he said he picked Aika. At least, that what he said when there were 5/6 candidates left...

[/quote]

Ahahaha, picked Aika & Koharu based on vocal talent. Good one. It's been plain for many a year that Tsunku likes to add girls that he feels he can bring up to par with the rest of the group (or at least what most people would consider competent.) Koharu & Aika are the definitive poster children for this method, and a good number of fans accept them despite their actual talent (or lack of, or 62% of) because they either look or act cute, or the fans are just insane & latch onto whatever new member got in as an underdog. And unless there's red tights & a cape involved, there's no room for an underdog in a singing group.



Personally, I'd be happy with Morning Musume being a duo comprised of Ai & Reina. And their clones.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='JPope' post='69457' date='Sep 28 2009, 12:18 AM']To be fair, though, you just named fully half of the group as it will be comprised after Koharu leaves. If anything, they are about par for being idols, with a couple above average singers. I personally wish Tsunku would weigh voice talent more than he does when choosing new members, but I know the drill. Still, this is kind of like when a Supreme Court justice whose philosophy you disagree with resigns, and there's hope that the new blood will be more to your liking.[/quote]

It's actually 5 vs 3. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' /> And I think JunJun will be one who gets better over time, at least. If you compare the other ones to non-H!P groups like Idoling!!! who are vocally horrible save for 3 or 4 members (Out of 22) or AKB48 who lipsyncs everything they can get away with, I think they're well above most idol groups.



I kind of wish Tsunku would invest more in good singers, especially since he's going to have to graduate Takahashi and Risa eventually, but I won't complain if we get another Sayu instead.



What I really want is for him to add more than 1 non-gimmick member this time around.

[neshcom]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69461' date='Sep 28 2009, 02:02 AM']What I really want is for him to add more than 1 non-gimmick member this time around.[/quote]

thisthisthisamilliontimesthis



MM's going to rot away if Tsunku doesn't bring in more than one person per audition. Yeah, 8th had JJ/LL after Aika, but I hope that was just an outlier. Tsunku needs to go to Idol Costco and pick up a 6-pack of can-sings and MAYBE a candy bar if he's a good boy.

[koolmon]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69461' date='Sep 27 2009, 11:02 PM']I kind of wish Tsunku would invest more in good singers[/quote]

He saves all of those for TNX. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' />

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='Koolmon93' post='69463' date='Sep 28 2009, 02:50 AM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='69461' date='Sep 27 2009, 11:02 PM']I kind of wish Tsunku would invest more in good singers[/quote]

He saves all of those for TNX. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' />

[/quote]

I really need to get into TNX. I saw a Canary Club performance of Rainy and it was incredible.

[JPope]

[quote name='Geof' post='69460' date='Sep 28 2009, 01:14 AM']Koharu & Aika are the definitive poster children for this method, and a good number of fans accept them despite their actual talent (or lack of, or 62% of) because they either look or act cute, or the fans are just insane & latch onto whatever new member got in as an underdog. And unless there's red tights & a cape involved, there's no room for an underdog in a singing group.[/quote]

When it was just Rika Ishikawa it wasn't a big deal, and Rika had so many other things going for her that her pathetic voice hardly mattered, or could even be considered part of her charm. Then we got Asami Konno, and it started to get kind of annoying, because not only was she was worse than Rika, but it sort of reminded some of us that Abe wasn't all that strong either. Two years later we get Sayumi, who took forever to find a niche in the group, and that brought the total to three woefully inadequate singers in the group whose main purpose was singing. Ishikawa left, but was replaced by the absolute worst talent to lay claim to membership in Morning Musume, Koharu Kusumi. Meanwhile, the other members leaving the group were either decent to strong singers (Goto, Yasuda, Yaguchi, Ida) and the face of the group since its inception, Abe. They finally get rid of Konno and Ogawa (who was dead weight despite being a passable singer) and replaced them with Aika. That's just silly. Having one crap singer -- so long as that person is really strong in other areas -- is fine, having two is bothersome, and having three or four just pushes the boundaries of credulity. But this is what Tsunku has decided Morning Musume should be, so I'm not expecting anything different.

[Madara]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='69435' date='Sep 28 2009, 03:33 AM']Sayumi is a comic genius with an extremely sharp wit and brilliant timing,[/quote]



Exactly. And that counts for something in a group like MM. (In fact, it's the one thing that keeps Sayumi from a gravure idol career track.)

[neshcom]

[quote name='Madara' post='69478' date='Sep 28 2009, 03:44 PM'][quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='69435' date='Sep 28 2009, 03:33 AM']Sayumi is a comic genius with an extremely sharp wit and brilliant timing,[/quote]



Exactly. And that counts for something in a group like MM. (In fact, it's the one thing that keeps Sayumi from a gravure idol career track.)

[/quote]

(......that and her itty titties)