Koharu Graduating From H!P

[eri]

[quote name='JPope' post='69472' date='Sep 28 2009, 05:57 AM']When it was just Rika Ishikawa it wasn't a big deal, and Rika had so many other things going for her that her pathetic voice hardly mattered, or could even be considered part of her charm. Then we got Asami Konno, and it started to get kind of annoying, because not only was she was worse than Rika, but it sort of reminded some of us that Abe wasn't all that strong either. Two years later we get Sayumi, who took forever to find a niche in the group, and that brought the total to three woefully inadequate singers in the group whose main purpose was singing.[/quote]



I don't know if the stars are disastrously aligning for 2012, but I find myself agreeing with you very often lately. Though we all agree that an idol's singing ability is often incidental to her degree of popularity and/or success, it is also understood that singing remains the idol's purported MAIN JOB. So, everyone grudgingly points to singing ability as the base-line of acceptability in morning musume but references these "other things" to balance out their opinion. Up until this point, I agree completely.



The problem is, these "other things" are continuously weighed against thousands of personally defined variables to the degree that comparing "bad singers" against each other falls flat as an argument. Or stated more simple: the "added value" a bad-singer brings to the group is really damn hard to measure. Looking over the careers of the crappy singers you mentioned, I feel like we can read them in a thousand ways. For example, Konno was a fan favorite (but I hated her) yet she never found real main-stream success. Koharu found major main-stream success with Kirarin. She sings terribly but she still stands out in the media in a significant way. She brings visibility to the group in a way that Konno NEVER COULD. So yes, Koharu sucks at singing but she's not a useless member. Similarly, Sayumi sucks at singing but she is not a useless member either. Etc etc etc.

edit: TNB says it better:

[quote name='TnB' post='69433' date='Sep 27 2009, 08:04 AM']it really all comes down to personal taste....

In terms of actually having some sort of role in the group though, I think at this point Sayumi and Koharu are about even.[/quote]



And regarding Koharu's sucess....

A lot of people are arguing that it was pure luck -- that she was just given Kirarin because she was the newest member to market. Without giving Koharu too much credit, we should point out that a solo singing career (with songs to memorize, dances to master, scripts to read, PVs to shoot, media appearances to give and so on) can't fly without the hardwork and minimal charisma of the star. You can say Koharu and all the mm girls are ultra produced, but Koharu's odd cracked-out personality and endless energy probably drove her forward. You might compare - Tsunku also gave Konno her own song and center position and for what? For that matter, Maki was also given her own solo career and when it stalled, could you dare suggest in hindsight that she was talentless and got a lucky break?

[Madara]

Rika's voice is pure balm for my troubled soul and if you asked me what I wanted the most right now from the whole Hello! Project/Elder Club/TNX/UFA or whatever-the-hell-it's-called-now enterprise, it would be a solo album from Rika.



Koharu's a slightly different matter, but when she sings calmer songs, as she did on her first CD album, she sounds really good to me. It's the barking ones that throw me off. But I listen anyway. And will continue to do so, if she continues to record, that is.



I also think Momo-chan's got a great voice, so there! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

[AEUGNewtype]

She (Sayumi) has shown a vast improvement, and really, I don't hate her anymore because no longer does she ruin the songs she is in.

You've got to be kidding me. Heard Nanchatte Renai anytime recently? Or anything that she has an extended solo line in? Or any live performance? Jeez.

Koharu actually had more talent to begin with than Sayumi... But she got, for me, progressively worse as she did more for Kirarin. When she first joined, her voice was not too horrible in Sexy Boy and Iroppoi Jirettai. Then she did the Kirarin stuff and all the sudden she had a much more annoying sound. And now it seems like that's all she can do.

This really doesn't make any sense and I'm honestly starting to wonder if anyone here has even listened to a vast majority of the songs Koharu has done. She had a few stinkers as far as single are concerned, where her voice sounded so irritating and the song was fairly equally annoying just in its composition, but a large majority of it is very fitting and supportive of her voice, and in the Milky Way stuff, she doesn't sing quite as much in the "anime voice" that everyone condemns to a fiery hellish eternity for some reason when the songs are MADE FOR AN ANIME. Its not like she's the one who decides what style she's going to sing the songs anyway, it feels like we're all kinda beating a dead horse to a certain extent here, comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges. But as many people have already said, being an idol doesn't just mean singing. Yeah, that's usually a part of it, but it has a lot to do with the characteristics of the person and the material they're involved with.

I never understood what there was to like about Koharu, outside of her being cute. She's annoying as hell and completely devoid of interesting personality traits. She is possibly the worst singer currently employed with a major entertainment agency. She's a worse singer than Sayumi, and Sayumi sucks quite badly. Sayumi has a likable personality, however, which Koharu has never had. And Sayumi actually becomes more entertaining and likable with each passing year, which is the complete opposite trajectory that Koharu has taken.

This is so wrong to me, its just awesome to read <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

it really all comes down to personal taste....

In terms of actually having some sort of role in the group though, I think at this point Sayumi and Koharu are about even.

That is TnB's quote from earlier, which Eri said sums it up pretty well, and Eri has good points as well, but I think this is true, but for varying reasons, since Koharu actually brought attention to herself and the show she was on because of the way she was. Whether or not this actually brought attention to MM as a group since their name was always tacked on behind her name (not like I give a shit about or think they need any more promotion for MM anyway,) is beyond the point here, but if you look very objectively at what Sayumi has done to any positive extent over many years, it falls terribly short. To me, she doesn't have a purpose in OR out of the group, where Koharu definitely has her chance at being charismatic and popular by herself.

[Cyrene]

I feel like it's almost a BAD thing here to be a Koharu fan now.



Sayumi still is horrible. Koharu sounds horrible in MM. It's just the way it is. Fortunately, if you listen to Balalaika you realize that Koharu did sound rather good at one point. Sayumi....has....? Whatever. Koharu IS profitable and anyone denying that is silly. She'll do well wherever she goes.



After Koharu leaves, we can all bitch about Sayumi again. The world will be OK again.

[eri]

I just realized that we've come to argue over who sucks less in mm. Oh H!P, how far you've fallen. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

[Special Needs Tricycle]

It's okay Eri, you will always suck the most! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /heart.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

[Melon]

People praising Koharu's anime voice acting abilities are off base. One, she's a horrible actress. Two, Kirarin was destined to be the next big girls' show. It didn't matter who lead it, they would've promoted the hell out of it and made it popular so they could peddle plastic crap. Did we forget that the kids were calling her Kirarin? They didn't think of her as a MM member. And after the show ended, so did the fan support. Or did MM's sales see a spike during/after the Kirarin stuff? :| She stood out all right, in a bad way.

[EmEl]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='69490' date='Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM']in the Milky Way stuff, she doesn't sing quite as much in the "anime voice" that everyone condemns to a fiery hellish eternity for some reason when the songs are MADE FOR AN ANIME.[/quote]

I don't think people were condemning the voice when it was used for anime, but that they perceived that that voice began to influence the way she was singing in Morning Musume. Although, I hope that's what they were arguing. I mean, I agree that I like her voice much more when it wasn't all "anime-style"; but, as you said, "Its not like she's the one who decides what style she's going to sing the songs anyway."



[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='69490' date='Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM']since Koharu actually brought attention to herself and the show she was on because of the way she was. Whether or not this actually brought attention to MM as a group since their name was always tacked on behind her name (not like I give a shit about or think they need any more promotion for MM anyway,) is beyond the point here[/quote]

[quote name='Petit Melon' post='69504' date='Sep 28 2009, 09:46 PM']Did we forget that the kids were calling her Kirarin? They didn't think of her as a MM member.[/quote]

This reminds of two girls who were behind me in line to get Koharu's autograph at Anime Expo. They knew nothing about Morning Musume, but were holding Platinum 9 Disc for her to sign. One was excited that she got the Koharu card in the album. They were looking at the cover and trying to decide which girls were bitches just based on the way they smiled for the cover, because that's the same thing these two 16-year-old girls did for the cheerleader group photos at their school. I tried to teach them something about each girl in hopes that new fans were born. They learned which was the youngest girl, which was the oldest, and which were Chinese. This is obviously a single anecdote, but Koharu's anime work sold at least one extra Morning Musume album.

[Cyrene]

[quote name='Petit Melon' post='69504' date='Sep 28 2009, 07:46 PM']People praising Koharu's anime voice acting abilities are off base. One, she's a horrible actress. Two, Kirarin was destined to be the next big girls' show. It didn't matter who lead it, they would've promoted the hell out of it and made it popular so they could peddle plastic crap. Did we forget that the kids were calling her Kirarin? They didn't think of her as a MM member. And after the show ended, so did the fan support. Or did MM's sales see a spike during/after the Kirarin stuff? :| She stood out all right, in a bad way.[/quote]



GASP, maybe they're fans of her voice acting! Geez, way to get touchy over it.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Sales did indeed start going up after Kirari slightly, but I'm not sure if it's all that related.



They also always made sure to address her as Tsukishima Kirari starring Kusumi Koharu (Morning Musume.), so I don't think it was ignored that she was a Morning Musume member. Idol groups in general tend to add on their group name like it's their second last name.

[AEUGNewtype]

Kirarin was destined to be the next big girls' show. It didn't matter who lead it, they would've promoted the hell out of it and made it popular so they could peddle plastic crap.

Way to claim complete speculation as fact.

Did we forget that the kids were calling her Kirarin? They didn't think of her as a MM member. And after the show ended, so did the fan support. Or did MM's sales see a spike during/after the Kirarin stuff? :|

This doesn't matter at all, in fact this is basically a description of what idols are, they're just very powerful and effective marketing tools when you really get down to the core of it. They just use them to sell tons of photobooks, concert tickets, CDs, any other product they can think of etc., etc., etc. So you're just basically saying she did extremely well at her job. And the show just ended 3 months ago, I don't see how you have any reason or way to say that "fan support has stopped" as if there was some proof of this or if this was a meaningful statement to begin with.

[Melon]

GASP, maybe they\'re fans of her voice acting! Geez, way to get touchy over it.

This forum is full of people who \"get too touchy\". I don\'t see how I\'m different. Perhaps I have poor word choice that makes it sound more offensive than what I mean.

Way to claim complete speculation as fact.

It\'s not speculation at all. I don\'t care where you are in the world, children\'s shows exist to sell plastic crap. Go ahead and take a walk through the toys section and see how many toys are pure toys that aren\'t tied into television shows or movies. Very few are. VERY few. And did Milky Way not have a PV featuring the plastic toys as props?

This doesn\'t matter at all, in fact this is basically a description of what idols are, they\'re just very powerful and effective marketing tools when you really get down to the core of it. They just use them to sell tons of photobooks, concert tickets, CDs, any other product they can think of etc., etc., etc. So you\'re just basically saying she did extremely well at her job. And the show just ended 3 months ago, I don\'t see how you have any reason or way to say that \"fan support has stopped\" as if there was some proof of this or if this was a meaningful statement to begin with.

The point I was trying to make was, whoever did the voice of Kirarin did not matter. It would\'ve been popular no matter who did it. You\'re trying to say Koharu did a great job at what she did and I\'m saying that she played no part in the popularity of the show and it had the elements that little girls eat up with a giant spoon until their stomachs hurt and they vomit all over the place.



Hell, I don't know what this thing did to the formatting of my post. But I'll add, I HATED KOHARU IN MORNING MUSUME AND I'M GLAD SHE'S GONE. So take that as a blinder to everything I say and I'm not going to be convinced she's anything other than dead weight.

[Farrah]

[quote name='Petit Melon' post='69521' date='Sep 29 2009, 01:21 AM']The point I was trying to make was, whoever did the voice of Kirarin did not matter. It would\'ve been popular no matter who did it. You\'re trying to say Koharu did a great job at what she did and I\'m saying that she played no part in the popularity of the show and it had the elements that little girls eat up with a giant spoon until their stomachs hurt and they vomit all over the place.[/quote]

I have to agree. They could have taken any natural, cute, hyper Japanese girl (and there are plenty of those lying around) and made her Kirari and it would have yielded the same results. I'm neither anti-Koha or a Koha fan, but while her Kirarin stuff did serve H!P well as far as exposure, none of that was due to any special ability on her part and once it was over she wasn't really bringing anything to the group anymore. People can say she's hyper and cute and spazzy but any idol can act hyper, cute, and spazzy. MOST idols do, she was just laying on the usual "OMG AREN'T I KAWAII DESU NE AND GENKI DESU KA!?!??!" idol personality, in my opinion.

[JPope]

I never understood what there was to like about Koharu, outside of her being cute. She's annoying as hell and completely devoid of interesting personality traits. She is possibly the worst singer currently employed with a major entertainment agency. She's a worse singer than Sayumi, and Sayumi sucks quite badly. Sayumi has a likable personality, however, which Koharu has never had. And Sayumi actually becomes more entertaining and likable with each passing year, which is the complete opposite trajectory that Koharu has taken.

This is so wrong to me, its just awesome to read <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

I need no further proof that what I wrote was spot on than you thinking it's wrong.

Fortunately, if you listen to Balalaika you realize that Koharu did sound rather good at one point. Sayumi....has....? Whatever. Koharu IS profitable and anyone denying that is silly. She'll do well wherever she goes.

I absolutely LOVE "Balalaika", and have always wished that a capable singer would have sung it. In fact, I listened to that song far less than I would have simply because Koharu destroyed everything that was good about it. Seriously, I know you dig Kohu, and that's cool, but to say that her performance on "Balalaika" is proof that she was a "rather good" singer at one point is preposterous. She has never been a good singer.

I just realized that we've come to argue over who sucks less in mm. Oh H!P, how far you've fallen.

That'll happen when you allow three chicks into MM at the same time who, on their best days, couldn't carry the vocal jocks of even Rika Ishikawa or Asami Konno.

[Pucchi-Mo]

[quote name='Ang' post='69533' date='Sep 29 2009, 07:59 AM']People can say she's hyper and cute and spazzy but any idol can act hyper, cute, and spazzy. MOST idols do, she was just laying on the usual "OMG AREN'T I KAWAII DESU NE AND GENKI DESU KA!?!??!" idol personality, in my opinion.[/quote]



Yes, any idol can act this way, but they aren't guaranteed the same degree of success for doing so.



As for abilities: Anyone who has done karaoke to it knows that Anataboshi and Balalaika are pretty damn hard to sing, so <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> to her.



Petit, why are you slashin' all over the place? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[anpanman]

[quote name='Ang' post='69533' date='Sep 29 2009, 12:59 PM'][quote name='Petit Melon' post='69521' date='Sep 29 2009, 01:21 AM']The point I was trying to make was, whoever did the voice of Kirarin did not matter. It would\'ve been popular no matter who did it. You\'re trying to say Koharu did a great job at what she did and I\'m saying that she played no part in the popularity of the show and it had the elements that little girls eat up with a giant spoon until their stomachs hurt and they vomit all over the place.[/quote]

I have to agree. They could have taken any natural, cute, hyper Japanese girl (and there are plenty of those lying around) and made her Kirari and it would have yielded the same results. I'm neither anti-Koha or a Koha fan, but while her Kirarin stuff did serve H!P well as far as exposure, none of that was due to any special ability on her part and once it was over she wasn't really bringing anything to the group anymore. People can say she's hyper and cute and spazzy but any idol can act hyper, cute, and spazzy. MOST idols do, she was just laying on the usual "OMG AREN'T I KAWAII DESU NE AND GENKI DESU KA!?!??!" idol personality, in my opinion.

[/quote]

I totally agree with you.

I cannot but laugh at when ppl say "Koharu has personality blah, blah".

In reality, she is very boring character and doesn't have aptitude for variety show. On the contrary, Sayumi has personality and she is apt for variety show.

But what Koharu has and others don't have is looks. Koharu is simply beautiful and that makes up for her lack of personality.

[Melon]

[quote name='TightWetPucchi' post='69547' date='Sep 29 2009, 11:57 AM']Petit, why are you slashin' all over the place? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />[/quote]



Because I honestly don't remember posting anything last night! I think I talked to you too on the chat and I don't remember anything I said! Man I must've been in a bad mood and/or stressed from work.

[BeForJess]

[quote name='EmEl' post='69505' date='Sep 28 2009, 10:48 PM'][quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='69490' date='Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM']in the Milky Way stuff, she doesn't sing quite as much in the "anime voice" that everyone condemns to a fiery hellish eternity for some reason when the songs are MADE FOR AN ANIME.[/quote]

I don't think people were condemning the voice when it was used for anime, but that they perceived that that voice began to influence the way she was singing in Morning Musume. Although, I hope that's what they were arguing. I mean, I agree that I like her voice much more when it wasn't all "anime-style"; but, as you said, "Its not like she's the one who decides what style she's going to sing the songs anyway."

[/quote]



Pretty much... I don't really listen to most of the Kirarin stuff - so I don't care about her voice there. People can papapancake themselves to death if they like. I don't like how she took her anime voice, and used it in everything she was in, after developing it.



As far as anime music and anime-like voices in music go, I actually like a lot of anime music... Just not hers. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Pi Mako]

Take that, Kago. (Above image was taken from H!O picboard >.>)

[Pucchi-Mo]

Damn, thread comes to a halt.



Everyone in Morning Musume is horrible in one way or another.

<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ohyeah.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omgwtf:' />



I'm shocked to see such sensitivity from a board that gives the profile option of 4 different hated aspects of H!P.

[Cyrene]

[quote name='Pi Miki' post='69580' date='Sep 29 2009, 06:05 PM']



Take that, Kago. (Above image was taken from H!O picboard >.>)[/quote]



Is that....real? Oh my. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ebleed.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omgwtf:' />

[al kusanagi]

Well that's just great. Thanks a lot. Now I want to bang Koharu.



Sayumi's still my future babymomma though.

[eri]

[quote name='Pi Miki' post='69580' date='Sep 29 2009, 06:05 PM']HORROR

Take that, Kago. (Above image was taken from H!O picboard >.>)[/quote]



I actually physically recoiled from that. Sorry, not hot. Koharu is a pretty girl but thats just gross.

[Gypchan]

[quote name='Pi Miki' post='69580' date='Sep 29 2009, 09:05 PM']



Take that, Kago. (Above image was taken from H!O picboard >.>)[/quote]

It's a Photoshopped pic. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omgwtf:' />

[sadude]

[Joel]

^ <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':omgwtf:' /> Koharu following Miki's footsteps!

[Special Needs Tricycle]

I'm really glad that I'm not the only one who thought of that when I saw that picture.

[Pi Mako]

Lol, photoshopped? I suck ass at detecting those kinds of things. Sorry. I feel like an idiot now. And ever since that one "infamous" picture from Koharu's last photobook, I wouldn't be surprised if she's taking these kinds of photos.



And wow. Now that I look at the photo closer, it looks really obvious?

[Melon]

[quote name='Pi Miki' post='69600' date='Sep 29 2009, 10:31 PM']Lol, photoshopped? I suck ass at detecting those kinds of things. Sorry. I feel like an idiot now. And ever since that one "infamous" picture from Koharu's last photobook, I wouldn't be surprised if she's taking these kinds of photos.



And wow. Now that I look at the photo closer, it looks really obvious?[/quote]



Don't feel so bad. Tommyboy had a MSPaint file open for a month on his laptop where he was meticulously shopping out Megan Fox's clothes. Not everyone is a quick photoshopper catcher, I mean.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Pi Miki' post='69600' date='Sep 29 2009, 10:31 PM']And ever since that one "infamous" picture from Koharu's last photobook, I wouldn't be surprised if she's taking these kinds of photos.[/quote]

I don't know what was "infamous" about a picture from her, unless you're talking about one of the ones where she had short shorts on, but that's really not very bad. Her new book does have WAY more risque shots in it, if you look around the pic boards enough, they're already circulating, and the making of video is already out. Usually the making of videos are fairly enjoyable and light-hearted, but her new one almost makes me a little uneasy because the shots are very sexualized and she looks a little uncomfortable at times. You'll see them eventually, I guess, I don't have time to upload them right now.