[quote name='emily' timestamp='1349263894' post='135068']
[quote name='aine' timestamp='1349213750' post='135021']
Everything can be fetishized, and if you try you can see perverted innuendo in everything. Why bother though? I could see nothing explicit or suggestive in this PV that wouldn't be a part of the visual/artistic concept behind it. I like to take MM at the face value, being mostly cheerful innocent girl pop music with flashy PVs. And this is coming from someone not exactly known for being a prude and who's seen a lot of sick crap on the internets back in the day.
Really, sometimes I feel "sexual innuendo in idol music" is the "subliminal satanic messages in metal music" of the present day. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
[/quote]
Ok cool so apparently watching children writhe on a table is cheerful and innocent.
I wonder where this fantasy land is where there is an alternative to problematic and fucking offensive media that we can just easily watch if we don’t like this generally awful stuff.
I would like to live in this utopia.
[/quote]
Hey, no offence.
If this PV bothers you then fine, your opinion. I just beg to differ and I do think that this fantasy utopia where the Wakuteka PV is not offensive is everywhere that's not inside your head. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
You see writhing children. I see idols being in character and acting according to the art direction of the PV. Which, apparently, meant to convey a somewhat bleak and depressing mood, furthered by the edgy contrasty colour palette.
If anything, I'd find the classic Do It! Now PV more disturbing. Look at their empty stares as they stand there, somewhat confused, under the wall, muttering the song lyrics hammered into their heads over never ending hours of torturous practice. Look at Yaguchi, wailing her desperate "I love you" as she extends her hand towards the viewer in the vain hope of being pulled out of that living hell. Look at the overflowing glasses in the water coolers symbolizing how their young bodies and minds can't take the routine they've been thrown into any more. Look at the camera preview monitors showing them dance from different angles, obviously hinting at how they are only seen as objectified puppets, dancing to the tune their management decided on, only to have their image replicated hundreds and thousands of times and sold to the paying clientele, who will then watch and re-watch it to feed their dark undisclosed desires...
*cough*
What I'm trying to say is, I think you're reading too much into it. Of course it's your decision whether you do or don't and how you interpret it, but if the general concept behind the idols disturbs you so deeply, it makes me wonder why do you follow H!P at all? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/meh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';/' />
Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
Moderators: testacles_4, Shoujo Q, momoirosaya
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
Last edited by aine on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯
#whereisyui #ゆいちゃん
~breathe your last and fall into my eternal embrace~
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='emily' timestamp='1349214490' post='135022']
[quote name='aine' timestamp='1348763542' post='134724']
The only other complaint is that it does feel kinda emotionless, like Berry said. I wish they showed a bit more spark. They don't seem like they don't enjoy what they're doing, but the general feeling is just of dullness. Maybe this was intentional to go with the somewhat bleak mood of the song, but if so, then the concept failed.
[/quote]
This PV is SO CREEPY. There is so much wrong with girls laying passively and emotionlessly on a table, waiting to be taken by a gross perv; let alone underage girls, let alone 12-year-olds. I can't decide if I am more disturbed by the objectification of Haruka, who looks like jailbait, or Masaki, who looks like a normal kid. So wrong I can't even.
[/quote]
Because of what you said, I watched the MV fully and I was constantly waiting for some dude walking up to them ("gross perv") or some shit like that.
But it didn't happen and I didn't have your impression the first time I've watched it.
[quote name='aine' timestamp='1348763542' post='134724']
The only other complaint is that it does feel kinda emotionless, like Berry said. I wish they showed a bit more spark. They don't seem like they don't enjoy what they're doing, but the general feeling is just of dullness. Maybe this was intentional to go with the somewhat bleak mood of the song, but if so, then the concept failed.
[/quote]
This PV is SO CREEPY. There is so much wrong with girls laying passively and emotionlessly on a table, waiting to be taken by a gross perv; let alone underage girls, let alone 12-year-olds. I can't decide if I am more disturbed by the objectification of Haruka, who looks like jailbait, or Masaki, who looks like a normal kid. So wrong I can't even.
[/quote]
Because of what you said, I watched the MV fully and I was constantly waiting for some dude walking up to them ("gross perv") or some shit like that.
But it didn't happen and I didn't have your impression the first time I've watched it.
Last edited by Ap2000 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Travel back in time through the haze of memories that aren't your own
and melodies frozen in a particular place in history..
If you say run, I'll run with you
If you say hide, we'll hide
and melodies frozen in a particular place in history..
If you say run, I'll run with you
If you say hide, we'll hide
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... mellow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':mellow:' />[quote name='aine' timestamp='1349269347' post='135070']
You see writhing children. I see idols being in character and acting according to the art direction of the PV.
[/quote]
How is that not problematic? It's ok because a director told them to do it?
H!P is pretty awful, whether it's reducing a girl to a body laying on a table, a guy loving the fact that Maki is 13 years old, S/mileage baring their midriffs, Sakura Gumi hiding their mouths in Sakura Mankai, specific examples etc. etc. etc. and generally anything that portrays women - children! - as sexualized/submissive/passive/feelings in service of men/etc. It has all blended together into one awful mess.
I have followed H!P for > 10 years and it has become impossible to defend as purely "cheerful and innocent." I don't understand people who say, "Well, there's a gross pervy element to it I will give you that, but the girls are also innocent and cheerful and why can't we all focus on that part and just be happy together?" You can't pull these two things apart. The whole point of Morning Musume is that they are normal girls who are training to become sex objects. They are portrayed as more attractive than other idols *because* they are young and innocent and don't quite know what they are doing, not in spite of these qualities. Again, how is that not problematic?
You see writhing children. I see idols being in character and acting according to the art direction of the PV.
[/quote]
How is that not problematic? It's ok because a director told them to do it?
H!P is pretty awful, whether it's reducing a girl to a body laying on a table, a guy loving the fact that Maki is 13 years old, S/mileage baring their midriffs, Sakura Gumi hiding their mouths in Sakura Mankai, specific examples etc. etc. etc. and generally anything that portrays women - children! - as sexualized/submissive/passive/feelings in service of men/etc. It has all blended together into one awful mess.
I have followed H!P for > 10 years and it has become impossible to defend as purely "cheerful and innocent." I don't understand people who say, "Well, there's a gross pervy element to it I will give you that, but the girls are also innocent and cheerful and why can't we all focus on that part and just be happy together?" You can't pull these two things apart. The whole point of Morning Musume is that they are normal girls who are training to become sex objects. They are portrayed as more attractive than other idols *because* they are young and innocent and don't quite know what they are doing, not in spite of these qualities. Again, how is that not problematic?
Last edited by emily on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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tsukinobyouin
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
Yeah, I'm not seeing it either. I watched it a second time to try and find something - perhaps sometimes their expressions are a bit too pouty for their age. But I seriously can't find a single moment where the word "writhing" applies at all. They barely move on the tables.
Innuendo and pandering certainly exists in idol land, but I don't see it to that level in this particular video.
Innuendo and pandering certainly exists in idol land, but I don't see it to that level in this particular video.
<p style="text-align:center;">
[personal blog | fandom tumblr | sailor moon stuff | coming soon - store!]
Banner by Miss Moonlight♥
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Banner by Miss Moonlight♥
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
Let's take a moment and remember the Queen of Writhing in H!P. Bless.
Now let's watch the PV again. No one is doing anything remotely sexy.
The beginning of the PV is the younger girls sleeping, then waking up into the cruel world of gnostic sparkles and bright flares of light.
They are prisoners to this light, we can tell by the shots of them in light prisons, cruelly robbing them of natural color.
In brief moments we can see their inner desires for natural light come forth with a shot of them in fire.
But they are for naught, they are caught in the light prisons, skin flushed with the gray embrace of death.
WAITASEC, the true meaning is that it's a zombie PV!?
Oh no, it's a shit light/lens flare/sparkle PV that happened because they had bright neon outfits prepared and a black light would mean that their beautiful faces would vanish and florescent lights accomplish the same thing without losing their face (at the cost of skin tone). Someone said "Hey, I'm tired of the standard close up shots where they're standing, let's do one of them laying down. So they lay down. None are doing even remotely what Maki did best. The fact that something sexual is in it is in your own mind. You see the girls as potential sexual objects (even if you don't desire them sexually) and thus will see their shots as sexual, regardless of what is actually going on. I'm reminded of a "controversial" tweet that was made by one of those television moms of her daughter's feet (and feet only) in her high heels. Several women blasted her for "pedos that would get off on it" when in reality it's a girl playing dress up, there is nothing sexual about oversized shoes, all of the potential is in their minds. The shot has been done for years upon years. Sometimes they have props (usually telephones) in their hand. If you go to a standard photographer, they will take a shot of girls on their stomachs. As for their makeup, dude, they're like, 12. I remember when I was 12 I loved putting on colored lipsticks and shit too. They had to wear lipstick like that for the the shots over those harsh florescent lights otherwise their entire face would look gray.
If the lolicons in Japan want lolis, they have an entire industry that caters to them, with specific labeling to their age.
Now let's watch the PV again. No one is doing anything remotely sexy.
The beginning of the PV is the younger girls sleeping, then waking up into the cruel world of gnostic sparkles and bright flares of light.
They are prisoners to this light, we can tell by the shots of them in light prisons, cruelly robbing them of natural color.
In brief moments we can see their inner desires for natural light come forth with a shot of them in fire.
But they are for naught, they are caught in the light prisons, skin flushed with the gray embrace of death.
WAITASEC, the true meaning is that it's a zombie PV!?
Oh no, it's a shit light/lens flare/sparkle PV that happened because they had bright neon outfits prepared and a black light would mean that their beautiful faces would vanish and florescent lights accomplish the same thing without losing their face (at the cost of skin tone). Someone said "Hey, I'm tired of the standard close up shots where they're standing, let's do one of them laying down. So they lay down. None are doing even remotely what Maki did best. The fact that something sexual is in it is in your own mind. You see the girls as potential sexual objects (even if you don't desire them sexually) and thus will see their shots as sexual, regardless of what is actually going on. I'm reminded of a "controversial" tweet that was made by one of those television moms of her daughter's feet (and feet only) in her high heels. Several women blasted her for "pedos that would get off on it" when in reality it's a girl playing dress up, there is nothing sexual about oversized shoes, all of the potential is in their minds. The shot has been done for years upon years. Sometimes they have props (usually telephones) in their hand. If you go to a standard photographer, they will take a shot of girls on their stomachs. As for their makeup, dude, they're like, 12. I remember when I was 12 I loved putting on colored lipsticks and shit too. They had to wear lipstick like that for the the shots over those harsh florescent lights otherwise their entire face would look gray.
If the lolicons in Japan want lolis, they have an entire industry that caters to them, with specific labeling to their age.
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='emily' timestamp='1349270978' post='135073']
H!P is pretty awful, whether it's reducing a girl to a body laying on a table, a guy loving the fact that Maki is 13 years old, S/mileage baring their midriffs, Sakura Gumi hiding their mouths in Sakura Mankai, specific examples etc. etc. etc. and generally anything that portrays women - children! - as sexualized/submissive/passive/feelings in service of men/etc. It has all blended together into one awful mess.
[/quote]
I have no words. Let's just assume you won the argument, because I'm at a real loss on how to respond to this level of paranoia and moral panic. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whatthe:' />
Petit. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />
[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1349274997' post='135081']
You see the girls as potential sexual objects (even if you don't desire them sexually) and thus will see their shots as sexual, regardless of what is actually going on. (...)
If the lolicons in Japan want lolis, they have an entire industry that caters to them, with specific labeling to their age.
[/quote]
Q. F. T.
H!P is pretty awful, whether it's reducing a girl to a body laying on a table, a guy loving the fact that Maki is 13 years old, S/mileage baring their midriffs, Sakura Gumi hiding their mouths in Sakura Mankai, specific examples etc. etc. etc. and generally anything that portrays women - children! - as sexualized/submissive/passive/feelings in service of men/etc. It has all blended together into one awful mess.
[/quote]
I have no words. Let's just assume you won the argument, because I'm at a real loss on how to respond to this level of paranoia and moral panic. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whatthe:' />
Petit. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />
[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1349274997' post='135081']
You see the girls as potential sexual objects (even if you don't desire them sexually) and thus will see their shots as sexual, regardless of what is actually going on. (...)
If the lolicons in Japan want lolis, they have an entire industry that caters to them, with specific labeling to their age.
[/quote]
Q. F. T.
⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯⎯
#whereisyui #ゆいちゃん
~breathe your last and fall into my eternal embrace~
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1349274997' post='135081']
If the lolicons in Japan want lolis, they have an entire industry that caters to them, with specific labeling to their age.
[/quote]
The forbidden fruit (in this case the "normal" idols) is always the more interesting one.
If the lolicons in Japan want lolis, they have an entire industry that caters to them, with specific labeling to their age.
[/quote]
The forbidden fruit (in this case the "normal" idols) is always the more interesting one.
Last edited by Ap2000 on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Travel back in time through the haze of memories that aren't your own
and melodies frozen in a particular place in history..
If you say run, I'll run with you
If you say hide, we'll hide
and melodies frozen in a particular place in history..
If you say run, I'll run with you
If you say hide, we'll hide
-
al kusanagi
- つんく♂
- Posts: 5324
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 3:56 pm
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
PSN: Aurin13
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
If you want to like H!P despite the sexualization that's your business (ew if you're for the sexualization I cannot tell if you are baiting), but I don't get that most of you genuinely believe that it doesn't exist or that it does exist but it's small enough that it's okay to ignore.
I do not like this PV because the girls are reduced to bodies on tables and dancers in cages. It is the opposite of cheerful and innocent and ass kicking. If that was the goal, they failed.
I do not like this PV because the girls are reduced to bodies on tables and dancers in cages. It is the opposite of cheerful and innocent and ass kicking. If that was the goal, they failed.
Last edited by emily on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1349278635' post='135088']
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
[/quote]
Not Sayu?
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
[/quote]
Not Sayu?
♥ Kaori • Risako ♥
♥ Sakura • Kananan • Sayuki ♥
-
tsukinobyouin
- ANGERME
- Posts: 3033
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 4:19 pm
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='emily' timestamp='1349279171' post='135090']
If you want to like H!P despite the sexualization that's your business (ew if you're for the sexualization I cannot tell if you are baiting), but I don't get that most of you genuinely believe that it doesn't exist or that it does exist but it's small enough that it's okay to ignore.
I do not like this PV because the girls are reduced to bodies on tables and dancers in cages. It is the opposite of cheerful and innocent. If that was the goal, they failed.
[/quote]
I'm confused. If you have so much disgust with H!P, why on earth do you follow these groups? From your posts it sounds like you've been disgusted with them for a long time, so I'm having a hard time understanding why you're here watching this PV to begin with.
If you want to like H!P despite the sexualization that's your business (ew if you're for the sexualization I cannot tell if you are baiting), but I don't get that most of you genuinely believe that it doesn't exist or that it does exist but it's small enough that it's okay to ignore.
I do not like this PV because the girls are reduced to bodies on tables and dancers in cages. It is the opposite of cheerful and innocent. If that was the goal, they failed.
[/quote]
I'm confused. If you have so much disgust with H!P, why on earth do you follow these groups? From your posts it sounds like you've been disgusted with them for a long time, so I'm having a hard time understanding why you're here watching this PV to begin with.
<p style="text-align:center;">
[personal blog | fandom tumblr | sailor moon stuff | coming soon - store!]
Banner by Miss Moonlight♥
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Banner by Miss Moonlight♥
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al kusanagi
- つんく♂
- Posts: 5324
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='yuzuriha' timestamp='1349280497' post='135093']
[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1349278635' post='135088']
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
[/quote]
Not Sayu?
[/quote]
Do Christians want to bang Jesus?
[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1349278635' post='135088']
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
[/quote]
Not Sayu?
[/quote]
Do Christians want to bang Jesus?
PSN: Aurin13
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
I'm going to post an intermission here to share the promotion for the single. All courtesy of jplop's Wakuteka thread:
10/4(木）Downtown DX （Haruna）21：00～22：48
10/4(木）TBS「噂のマヨつば話!一斉捜査SP」（Sayumi）23：50～24：55
10/5(金)Happy Music 25：13～26：08
10/6(土）TBS系「王様のブランチ」(Sayumi）10：00～10：40
10/6(土)SPACE SHOWER TV Plus 22：00～24：00
10/7(日)GirlsNews 18：00～19：00
10/7(日）TBS系「注文の多い料理人」(Sayumi）
10/7(日） モーニング娘。 NHK「MUSIC JAPAN」
10/8(月）岩手めんこいテレビ「BEATNIKS」(Ayumi)
10/10(水）読売テレビ「音楽のチカラ」
Sayumi, Haruna, Ayumi, and Mizuki filmed for a Space Shower TV show called "Music Intelligence Section 6", airs 10/18:
More radio promotion (they've already done some):
10/10(水)IBC岩手放送「マカタト STUDIO☆3600」(Ayumi)20：00～21：00
10/11(木)NHK福岡「夕べのひととき」(Reina、Haruna)17：20～18：00
10/13(土）DateFM「音姫-OTOHIME-」(Ayumi）
Mizuki and Haruna were also on Tatekawa Shirano no Sabukaru Tengoku radio show, and it airs 10/9 and 10/16.
Ayumi, Mizuki and Haruna will also be in Big One Girls promoting the single. Have a photo.
And one more thing:
Chaku uta site Dwango.jp campaign - download the Wktk Take a chance Chaku uta and get all 50 singles for 50 yen.
10/4(木）Downtown DX （Haruna）21：00～22：48
10/4(木）TBS「噂のマヨつば話!一斉捜査SP」（Sayumi）23：50～24：55
10/5(金)Happy Music 25：13～26：08
10/6(土）TBS系「王様のブランチ」(Sayumi）10：00～10：40
10/6(土)SPACE SHOWER TV Plus 22：00～24：00
10/7(日)GirlsNews 18：00～19：00
10/7(日）TBS系「注文の多い料理人」(Sayumi）
10/7(日） モーニング娘。 NHK「MUSIC JAPAN」
10/8(月）岩手めんこいテレビ「BEATNIKS」(Ayumi)
10/10(水）読売テレビ「音楽のチカラ」
Sayumi, Haruna, Ayumi, and Mizuki filmed for a Space Shower TV show called "Music Intelligence Section 6", airs 10/18:
More radio promotion (they've already done some):
10/10(水)IBC岩手放送「マカタト STUDIO☆3600」(Ayumi)20：00～21：00
10/11(木)NHK福岡「夕べのひととき」(Reina、Haruna)17：20～18：00
10/13(土）DateFM「音姫-OTOHIME-」(Ayumi）
Mizuki and Haruna were also on Tatekawa Shirano no Sabukaru Tengoku radio show, and it airs 10/9 and 10/16.
Ayumi, Mizuki and Haruna will also be in Big One Girls promoting the single. Have a photo.
And one more thing:
Chaku uta site Dwango.jp campaign - download the Wktk Take a chance Chaku uta and get all 50 singles for 50 yen.
Last edited by Anderei on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='TnB' timestamp='1349280510' post='135094']
I'm confused. If you have so much disgust with H!P, why on earth do you follow these groups? From your posts it sounds like you've been disgusted with them for a long time, so I'm having a hard time understanding why you're here watching this PV to begin with.
[/quote]
*shrug* I used to like them a lot in 2003-2006 - because I saw it as pure and innocent fun - and I have obviously changed a lot in five years. I still like a few things. I think I keep coming back to this forum because I try to focus on how I used to feel and not on what it actually is. When the PV is literally just cage dancing and laying on tables, it's hard to look away (pun intended). Masaki disturbs me the most because she looks and acts like a 12-year-old - and the fact that she is the opposite of Maki, with big boobs and explicitly sexual moves - that is precisely why it is so awkward and uncomfortable to see her cage dancing and laying on tables. The fact that it is so emotionless, passive, doing it because they were told to makes it more creepy. It's not an accident that their main fanbase is gross pervs. Maybe I just have high standards - I cannot stand most television for the same reasons.
I would love to see a PV where they actively kick the asses of wotas.
I'm confused. If you have so much disgust with H!P, why on earth do you follow these groups? From your posts it sounds like you've been disgusted with them for a long time, so I'm having a hard time understanding why you're here watching this PV to begin with.
[/quote]
*shrug* I used to like them a lot in 2003-2006 - because I saw it as pure and innocent fun - and I have obviously changed a lot in five years. I still like a few things. I think I keep coming back to this forum because I try to focus on how I used to feel and not on what it actually is. When the PV is literally just cage dancing and laying on tables, it's hard to look away (pun intended). Masaki disturbs me the most because she looks and acts like a 12-year-old - and the fact that she is the opposite of Maki, with big boobs and explicitly sexual moves - that is precisely why it is so awkward and uncomfortable to see her cage dancing and laying on tables. The fact that it is so emotionless, passive, doing it because they were told to makes it more creepy. It's not an accident that their main fanbase is gross pervs. Maybe I just have high standards - I cannot stand most television for the same reasons.
I would love to see a PV where they actively kick the asses of wotas.
Last edited by emily on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
I'm not getting in the middle of the main argument here, just wanted to point out one thing. Maki actually EXPRESSED her discomfort with the image H!P was thrusting on her as she got older. That isn't suddenly less troubling just because she has the boobs for it.
Last edited by Pflaume on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
"In this world, Elwood, you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant."
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
I didn't say it was less troubling to me because she got boobs. Let me clarify - I think that Masaki and Maki are just as troubling. The fact that they have vastly different bodies doesn't matter, that is the point - they are sexualized just the same, whether they have boobs or the body of a child, whether it's done overtly and actively or passively and submissively. Furthermore, in both cases, they are sexy because they are 12-13 - because they are cute and innocent - they are part and parcel. I guess Masaki struck a nerve because I am more used to men who drool over children who look like women, than men who drool over children who look like children, even though they're both gross.
Last edited by emily on Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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momoirosaya
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
We're desensitized to this kind of stuff. Most people don't think if this as some kind of sexy pedo video because they aren't looking at it that way. If they were doing something more blatantly sexy, then it would be seen like that, but they aren't.
Also a lot of times in japan sexy can =cool.
Also a lot of times in japan sexy can =cool.
Last edited by momoirosaya on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
rikako♡eripon♡airi
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
Just because the other crap out there isn't any better doesn't make this ok. I still don't see how any of this is cute and innocent and not pandering to pervs.
Last edited by emily on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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[/center]Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
emily, with all due respect, please get off your high horse and stop implying that we're all pervs and pedos who get off to videos of 12 year olds in suggestive poses. You've been basically doing this for the last page or two of this thread and it's starting to get under my skin. Ktnx.
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Purin-chama
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
If you consider the videos from singles 32-41 (Egao Yes Nude to Kimagure), this is bringing the level of sexuality down especially seeing as the average age was older at that time. The bars look stupid, but Masaki was the only one who looked like she was TRYING to be sexy while the older girls are just standing there mostly (Sayumi and Reina are both not trying very hard at all). The only other ones I felt had a sexual vibe to them were Haruka and Mizuki, and I think that has more to do with their eyes than anything else (any video or picture I see of them, they look like this). The table part did weird me out, but considering a lot of girls their ages do tend to try to be older than they actually are (notice the youngest of the girls are trying to be more sexy than the older ones). It's normal. Granted yes, it's creepy, but it's not all the director's fault. The girls probably have some say in what they're doing or wearing.
EDIT: Someone brought up Maki and her not liking where management was taking her. I feel like she was able to divert some of it, or else she would have gotten a sexy image way sooner than she did. Daite yo! was the first single I felt they even tried to sexy her up, but she has 5 singles between that and Glass no Pumps/Some Boys, all of which are ballads or fun songs. She had to have some say in it before leaving. Her final single was Secret.
EDIT: Someone brought up Maki and her not liking where management was taking her. I feel like she was able to divert some of it, or else she would have gotten a sexy image way sooner than she did. Daite yo! was the first single I felt they even tried to sexy her up, but she has 5 singles between that and Glass no Pumps/Some Boys, all of which are ballads or fun songs. She had to have some say in it before leaving. Her final single was Secret.
Last edited by Purin-chama on Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='aine' timestamp='1349285053' post='135108']
emily, with all due respect, please get off your high horse and stop implying that we're all pervs and pedos who get off to videos of 12 year olds in suggestive poses. You've been basically doing this for the last page or two of this thread and it's starting to get under my skin. Ktnx.
[/quote]
Hey, speak for yourself.
<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />
emily, with all due respect, please get off your high horse and stop implying that we're all pervs and pedos who get off to videos of 12 year olds in suggestive poses. You've been basically doing this for the last page or two of this thread and it's starting to get under my skin. Ktnx.
[/quote]
Hey, speak for yourself.
<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />
♥ Kaori • Risako ♥
♥ Sakura • Kananan • Sayuki ♥
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='yuzuriha' timestamp='1349289099' post='135111']
[quote name='aine' timestamp='1349285053' post='135108']
emily, with all due respect, please get off your high horse and stop implying that we're all pervs and pedos who get off to videos of 12 year olds in suggestive poses. You've been basically doing this for the last page or two of this thread and it's starting to get under my skin. Ktnx.
[/quote]
Hey, speak for yourself.
<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />
[/quote]
Would you like to have a seat over there yuzu? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /crazy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crazy:' />
[quote name='aine' timestamp='1349285053' post='135108']
emily, with all due respect, please get off your high horse and stop implying that we're all pervs and pedos who get off to videos of 12 year olds in suggestive poses. You've been basically doing this for the last page or two of this thread and it's starting to get under my skin. Ktnx.
[/quote]
Hey, speak for yourself.
<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /ph34r.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':ph34r:' />
[/quote]
Would you like to have a seat over there yuzu? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /crazy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':crazy:' />
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#whereisyui #ゆいちゃん
~breathe your last and fall into my eternal embrace~
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Solarblade
- ANGERME
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Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
The funny thing about this is that majority doesn't see this as overly-sexualized....you're kind of on your own emily and that SAYS A LOT.
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
I never saw this PV as sexual-izing the younger girls. Its not something most people see (or even care about for that matter) without looking closely. It seems as if those who do find it inappropriate, are trying to find something wrong with it because when I watch it, all I see is another H!P video that could use some improving, and nothing more than that.
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Catch the stars before they fall . . .
"I am the son and the heir of a shyness that is criminally vulgar. I am the son and heir of nothing in particular."
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1349280957' post='135095']
[quote name='yuzuriha' timestamp='1349280497' post='135093']
[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1349278635' post='135088']
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
[/quote]
Not Sayu?
[/quote]
Do Christians want to bang Jesus?
[/quote]
I laughed way too much at this.
Also, my name is Emily, so for some reason I kept thinking people were talking to me. Then I realized we're going by screen names and I'm just a big ball of durrrrr today. Pain pills. Blame them.
I do see a bit of sexy in the video, but I'm fine with a bit of it. I'm sure the girls' parents are fine with it, or they wouldn't have allowed their daughters to be involved with anything showbiz in the first place.
I don't think the Japanese definition of sexy is the same as ours. My mind is all sorts of fuzzy right now, but I think they have another word that is more equal to the western concept of sexy. To me, the Japanese concept of sexy/sekushi had cuteness mixed in with a bit of sex appeal and attraction. If an idol were to be called erotic, I think (in general), she wouldn't really like it. Especially the younger ones. I'm sure I've seen a similar discussion about this somewhere else on this forum, or maybe another, but I can't remember... maybe when my meds wear off I will go find it.
Most of all, I think this video is pretty cool and they've been taking MM in a cooler direction these last few singles. Who better than Japan to do all this mecha sounding music? They've got gundams, and now they've got Mecha Musume. I kinda dig that. But I like how a distinct "sound" doesn't really exist since they seem to move on to new types of music every few singles or so.
[quote name='yuzuriha' timestamp='1349280497' post='135093']
[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1349278635' post='135088']
It's not working. Eripon's the only one I want to have sex with. That's like a 10% success rate. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />
[/quote]
Not Sayu?
[/quote]
Do Christians want to bang Jesus?
[/quote]
I laughed way too much at this.
Also, my name is Emily, so for some reason I kept thinking people were talking to me. Then I realized we're going by screen names and I'm just a big ball of durrrrr today. Pain pills. Blame them.
I do see a bit of sexy in the video, but I'm fine with a bit of it. I'm sure the girls' parents are fine with it, or they wouldn't have allowed their daughters to be involved with anything showbiz in the first place.
I don't think the Japanese definition of sexy is the same as ours. My mind is all sorts of fuzzy right now, but I think they have another word that is more equal to the western concept of sexy. To me, the Japanese concept of sexy/sekushi had cuteness mixed in with a bit of sex appeal and attraction. If an idol were to be called erotic, I think (in general), she wouldn't really like it. Especially the younger ones. I'm sure I've seen a similar discussion about this somewhere else on this forum, or maybe another, but I can't remember... maybe when my meds wear off I will go find it.
Most of all, I think this video is pretty cool and they've been taking MM in a cooler direction these last few singles. Who better than Japan to do all this mecha sounding music? They've got gundams, and now they've got Mecha Musume. I kinda dig that. But I like how a distinct "sound" doesn't really exist since they seem to move on to new types of music every few singles or so.
<p class="bbc_center">-MIZUKKINGDOM-
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
[quote name='enmi' timestamp='1349297947' post='135119']
I do see a bit of sexy in the video, but I'm fine with a bit of it. I'm sure the girls' parents are fine with it, or they wouldn't have allowed their daughters to be involved with anything showbiz in the first place.
I don't think the Japanese definition of sexy is the same as ours. My mind is all sorts of fuzzy right now, but I think they have another word that is more equal to the western concept of sexy. To me, the Japanese concept of sexy/sekushi had cuteness mixed in with a bit of sex appeal and attraction. If an idol were to be called erotic, I think (in general), she wouldn't really like it. Especially the younger ones. I'm sure I've seen a similar discussion about this somewhere else on this forum, or maybe another, but I can't remember... maybe when my meds wear off I will go find it.
Most of all, I think this video is pretty cool and they've been taking MM in a cooler direction these last few singles. Who better than Japan to do all this mecha sounding music? They've got gundams, and now they've got Mecha Musume. I kinda dig that. But I like how a distinct "sound" doesn't really exist since they seem to move on to new types of music every few singles or so.
[/quote]
You mean ero/sexy ?
I do think these two words bear a connotation. Sexy is the positive/good thing and ero is the somewhat negative one, where, if somebody says it you're supposed to be ashamed of it and be all Risa USO!
But I don't think there's a western/eastern difference between specific terms.
Parents aren't really always the best judges when it comes to "what's good" for their kids.
I do see a bit of sexy in the video, but I'm fine with a bit of it. I'm sure the girls' parents are fine with it, or they wouldn't have allowed their daughters to be involved with anything showbiz in the first place.
I don't think the Japanese definition of sexy is the same as ours. My mind is all sorts of fuzzy right now, but I think they have another word that is more equal to the western concept of sexy. To me, the Japanese concept of sexy/sekushi had cuteness mixed in with a bit of sex appeal and attraction. If an idol were to be called erotic, I think (in general), she wouldn't really like it. Especially the younger ones. I'm sure I've seen a similar discussion about this somewhere else on this forum, or maybe another, but I can't remember... maybe when my meds wear off I will go find it.
Most of all, I think this video is pretty cool and they've been taking MM in a cooler direction these last few singles. Who better than Japan to do all this mecha sounding music? They've got gundams, and now they've got Mecha Musume. I kinda dig that. But I like how a distinct "sound" doesn't really exist since they seem to move on to new types of music every few singles or so.
[/quote]
You mean ero/sexy ?
I do think these two words bear a connotation. Sexy is the positive/good thing and ero is the somewhat negative one, where, if somebody says it you're supposed to be ashamed of it and be all Risa USO!
But I don't think there's a western/eastern difference between specific terms.
Parents aren't really always the best judges when it comes to "what's good" for their kids.
Travel back in time through the haze of memories that aren't your own
and melodies frozen in a particular place in history..
If you say run, I'll run with you
If you say hide, we'll hide
and melodies frozen in a particular place in history..
If you say run, I'll run with you
If you say hide, we'll hide
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
Ah, true about parents. They can take advantage of their child starlets.... sadsad.
And I think I meant ero/sexy. That sounds familiar to what I've heard before. The context does seem slightly different to me, but I can't put it into words so it will make sense outside of my head.
And I think I meant ero/sexy. That sounds familiar to what I've heard before. The context does seem slightly different to me, but I can't put it into words so it will make sense outside of my head.
<p class="bbc_center">-MIZUKKINGDOM-
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
We have all had different life experiences and different exposures. Emily is offended, I don't see why this is so bad for her to express.
I'm proud that we have a board that can produce such a discussion. We do know what the alternative would be, as far as fans talking about this PV on a message board online... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... bangin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bangin:' />
Also, the result was another brilliant story from Petit, I say it ended well. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... opcorn.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... kowota.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wota:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/bow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
I'm proud that we have a board that can produce such a discussion. We do know what the alternative would be, as far as fans talking about this PV on a message board online... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... bangin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':bangin:' />
Also, the result was another brilliant story from Petit, I say it ended well. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... opcorn.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... kowota.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wota:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/bow.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />Delivering bad puns and deciphering
Tsunku's madness for ten whole years!
You're welcome.
Tsunku's madness for ten whole years!
You're welcome.
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
I don't get why people are saying Maki was uncomfortable acting sexy, because I actually translated an interview she did while promoting Some Boys! Touch that said she was uncomfortable with the cutesy, childish image of songs like Te wo Nigitte, and how she enjoyed acting more grown up and less idol-like. I'll try to dig it up but it's from years ago so I can't guarantee success. It was a very interesting read. Plus, despite having more control over her image at Avex, her image became MORE sexual.
That said, this video did not give me creepy vibes, really. I think the passiveness was actually them going for a robot kind of thing, not a "Wow, I appear to be free for the taking! Take advantage of my loli body!"
However, LOTS of H!P stuff over the years has been very lolibaitish so I don't get why people are determined to act like everything is innocent. They're an idol group with a 90% older male fanbase - A LOT of what they do is for the sake of titillation Look at artists like Koda Kumi and Amuro Namie, both having a very powerful and sexy image, as well as a predominately female fanbase. This is because girls and women in are kind of inspired by their brazen sexuality, whereas the creepy neckbeard wota tend to prefer the submissive image of idol groups.
Koda Kumi and HOW TO USE SEXY-era Goto are all "FUCK YOU, I WILL SHAKE MY TATAS IN YOUR FACE!", whereas the wota are more for the whole "Oh dear, senpai, I appear to have bent over while wearing a school girl skirt that is far too short! TEE HEE! Let me eat whipped cream and nyan at you now." image.
I need to learn to just avoid pointing out the sexual nature of idol groups. I've had far too many arguements with people who claim that there is NOTHING sexual about the Heavy Rotation PV. I don't know why I didn't lose all faith in humanity at the point. :P Liking idol groups doesn't make you a dirty pedo, but I think it's naive to act like they never pander to that (considerably large) subset of fans.
That said, this video did not give me creepy vibes, really. I think the passiveness was actually them going for a robot kind of thing, not a "Wow, I appear to be free for the taking! Take advantage of my loli body!"
However, LOTS of H!P stuff over the years has been very lolibaitish so I don't get why people are determined to act like everything is innocent. They're an idol group with a 90% older male fanbase - A LOT of what they do is for the sake of titillation Look at artists like Koda Kumi and Amuro Namie, both having a very powerful and sexy image, as well as a predominately female fanbase. This is because girls and women in are kind of inspired by their brazen sexuality, whereas the creepy neckbeard wota tend to prefer the submissive image of idol groups.
Koda Kumi and HOW TO USE SEXY-era Goto are all "FUCK YOU, I WILL SHAKE MY TATAS IN YOUR FACE!", whereas the wota are more for the whole "Oh dear, senpai, I appear to have bent over while wearing a school girl skirt that is far too short! TEE HEE! Let me eat whipped cream and nyan at you now." image.
I need to learn to just avoid pointing out the sexual nature of idol groups. I've had far too many arguements with people who claim that there is NOTHING sexual about the Heavy Rotation PV. I don't know why I didn't lose all faith in humanity at the point. :P Liking idol groups doesn't make you a dirty pedo, but I think it's naive to act like they never pander to that (considerably large) subset of fans.
Last edited by Farrah on Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Purin-chama
- ANGERME
- Posts: 1027
- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:12 pm
Re: Morning Musume - Wakuteka Take a Chance
I think the Maki thing was said by her after she was officially out of contract with UFA. It may have been after she joined avex, but I don't know.