Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

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Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

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Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/01/us/01survival.html?_r=1

By Michael Luo, Published: February 28, 2009



TEMPE, Ariz. — Mark Cooper started his work day on a recent morning cleaning the door handles of an office building with a rag, vigorously shaking out a rug at a back entrance and pushing a dust mop down a long hallway. Nine months ago he lost his job as the security manager for the western United States for a Fortune 500 company, overseeing a budget of $1.2 million and earning about $70,000 a year. Now he is grateful for the $12 an hour he makes in what is known in unemployment circles as a “survival job” at a friend’s janitorial services company. But that does not make the work any easier. “You’re fighting despair, discouragement, depression every day,” Mr. Cooper said.



Working five days a week, 9 a.m. to 6 p.m., Mr. Cooper is not counted by traditional measures as among the recession’s casualties at this point. But his tumble down the economic ladder is among the more disquieting and often hidden aspects of the downturn.



It is not clear how many professionals like Mr. Cooper have taken on these types of lower-paying jobs, which are themselves in short supply. Many are doing their best to hold out as long as possible on unemployment benefits and savings while still looking for work in their fields. About 1.7 million people, however, were working part-time in January because they could not find full-time work, a 40 percent jump from December 2007, when the recession began, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.



And experts agree that as the economic downturn continues and as more people begin to exhaust their jobless benefits and other options, the situation Mr. Cooper is in will inevitably become more common. Interviews with more than two dozen laid-off professionals across the country, including architects, former sales managers and executives who have taken on lower-paying, stop-gap jobs to help make ends meet, found that they were working for places like U.P.S., a Verizon Wireless call center and a liquor store. For many of the workers, the psychological adjustment was just as difficult as the financial one, with their sense of identity and self-worth upended.



“It has been like peeling back the layers of a bad onion,” said Ame Arlt, 53, who recently accepted a position as a customer-service representative at an online insurance-leads referral service in Franklin, Tenn., after 20 years of working in executive jobs. “With every layer you peel back, you discover something else about yourself. You have to make an adjustment.”



Some people had exhausted their jobless benefits, or were ineligible; others said it was impossible for them to live on their unemployment checks alone, or said it was a matter of pride, or sanity, that drove them to find a job, any job. In just one illustration of the demand for low-wage work, a spokesman for U.P.S. said the company saw the number of applicants this last holiday season for jobs sorting and delivering packages almost triple to 1.4 million from the 500,000 it normally receives.



When Ms. Arlt applied for the job, she sent in a stripped-down résumé that hid her 20-year career at national media companies, during which she ascended to vice president of brand development at the On Command Video Corporation and was making $165,000 a year. She decided in 2001 to start her own business, opening an equestrian store and then founding a magazine devoted to the sport. But with the economy slowing, she was forced to shutter both businesses by June of last year. After applying for more than 100 jobs, mostly director-level and above in marketing and branding, and getting just two interviews, Ms. Arlt said she realized last fall that she had to do something to “close the monthly financial hemorrhage.”



Her new job at HometownQuotes pays $10 to $15 an hour and has mostly entailed data entry. But even though she has parted ways with some friends because she is no longer in their social stratum, Ms. Arlt said she was glad she was no longer sitting at home, “thinking, ‘Who have I not heard from today?’ ” Her new paycheck covers her mortgage but not her other living expenses. Recently, she cashed out what was left of her retirement portfolio, about $17,000. “It has been the hardest thing in my life,” she said. “It has been harder than my divorce from my husband. It has really been even worse than the death of my mother.”



Nearly all of those interviewed said they considered their situations temporary and planned to resume their careers where they left off once the economy improves. But there are people like John Eller, 51, of Lee’s Summit, Mo., who offer a glimpse of how difficult it can be to bounce back. Mr. Eller had been a senior director at Sprint, earning as much as $150,000 a year and overseeing 7,000 employees at 13 call centers, before being laid off in 2002 amid the economic contraction after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. A year later, he found another job, at roughly half the pay, managing a call center in New Jersey. After he lost that job two years later in a downsizing, Mr. Eller found himself out of work for another year before landing a contract position running two call centers in Kansas and Illinois, earning close to six figures. But after that ended a year later, he was unable to find work for several months. In July 2007, he took what he thought would be a temporary job for $10 an hour as a baker in a grocery store. He was laid off again last October. Mr. Eller quickly landed a new survival job, working as a supervisor on the overnight shift for a contractor processing immigration applications for the federal government at a salary of about $34,000 a year. But with eight children and a wife to support, Mr. Eller said he was still “below poverty level.” The family has not been able to make mortgage payments in five months and has been on the brink of foreclosure. “I’m still scratching and clawing and trying to work my way back,” he said.



In Mr. Cooper’s case, relying on unemployment checks was never a serious consideration. The maximum benefit that jobless people can collect in Arizona is $240 a week, among the lowest in the country — and much less than is required to cover the mortgage on the comfortable four-bedroom home in Glendale that he and his wife, Maggie Macias-Cooper, share. Mrs. Macias-Cooper, who works as a personal trainer in a gym built in what used to be the couple’s three-car garage, has seen her client base shrink to 10 from about 50 over the last year. In addition to giving Mr. Cooper a job as a janitor, his friend agreed to pay for the couple’s benefits through Cobra. Maintaining health care coverage was paramount for the family because Mrs. Macias-Cooper recently had breast cancer.



Some unemployed professionals said they decided not to seek even part-time work because it might interfere with their job searches. But Mr. Cooper rises every day at 4 a.m. and, after a time of prayer, devotes two hours to his job hunt on the computer. He prints out a detailed call list of prospective employers to take with him, squeezing in phone conversations during breaks throughout the day from his pickup truck, which he calls his “office.”“There were times I broke down,” Mr. Cooper said. “I broke down thinking, ‘This is what I’ve become.’



But Mrs. Macias-Cooper, who admitted that she was initially embarrassed about her husband’s new job, says she is now grateful. “There is no shame,” said Mrs. Macias-Cooper, who grew teary during an interview at their home. “I am very proud of my husband that he will go to any lengths, do whatever it takes, to keep his family afloat, if it means mopping floors, cleaning urinals.



-------------------------



I found this article utterly fascinating. The transition for someone from 6 figures or even $70,000 a year to 15 or 20k has to hurt, yes, but there was this underlying implication in the article that these people were too good for these lowly peon jobs, which really bothered me a lot because I've always learned to take pride in whatever job I have, no matter what it is. A lot of people take their jobs for granted, I think, and seeing these people take their early high-paying jobs for granted even after they've lost them and then feel like they're above these other jobs is unsettling.



But yes, the economy sucks. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... wheely.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by ostrich »

Um... the entire article was ABOUT people who did not consider themselves too good for those peon jobs (e.g., 1M more applicants than in prior year for UPS). People were embarrassed when they had no jobs at all, not that they had lowly jobs. The psychological aspects mentioned in the article are more to do with the sudden change in environment, and forced change in lifestyle (e.g., making 34k/year before taxes and having to support nine other people is not easy).



In terms of lost pride, of course it would happen - you're no longer needed as a director or some other high-ranking position in a big company. Further interviews confirm that you're not really worth anything. The fact that most people are able to move beyond that is a testament to the fact that they don't think of themselves too highly.



On a somewhat related note, this is probably one of the worst times for students to be graduating and entering the workforce. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rofl:' />
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Shoujo Q »

I'm happy I have a job at all. D: Our company has been doing horrible because of the economy, but our boss doesn't want to fire anyone because sometimes we have lots of work and sometimes we have very little. So instead of firing people he just cut back everyone's hours. We don't work Monday and have half-days on Friday.



I hope the economy works itself out soon. I miss my full paycheck. xD I'd be able to pay my loans off no problem. D:
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by AEUGNewtype »

[quote name='sadude' post='61152' date='Mar 1 2009, 01:12 AM']I found this article utterly fascinating. The transition for someone from 6 figures or even $70,000 a year to 15 or 20k has to hurt, yes, but there was this underlying implication in the article that these people were too good for these lowly peon jobs, which really bothered me a lot because I've always learned to take pride in whatever job I have, no matter what it is. A lot of people take their jobs for granted, I think, and seeing these people take their early high-paying jobs for granted even after they've lost them and then feel like they're above these other jobs is unsettling.[/quote]

Yeah, there's a very realistic side to this that aims to capture the sympathy of us "normal" people out there in the economy and tell a story, but the arrogant side of it is pretty noticeable, too, and it is disturbing. I feel like one of the luckiest people in the world right now to have just landed a really good paying job with a growing company and am doing the opposite of what this story tells, but hearing stuff like this makes me a little mad when they try to make such a huge deal about it as a news story. Sure, what qualifies as "news" is always subjective, as we now know in the internet age, but this is right on the ethical borderline for me.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by BeForJess »

There's a horrible part of me that is happy to see people humbled back into the world most of us have to live in, where you can't always make ends meet no matter how hard you stuggle.



At the same time I do have sympathy for their plight, though - My husband and I would be doing pretty well right now if his job hadn't been downsized (now he is like many of the people in the article, struggling for even part time work). But he didn't make anything outrageous, either, 30,000 a year in New England isn't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but it's sure better than 15,000. I practically support us single-handedly right now and even I would take a second job to try and make ends meet if I could. Unfortunately the nature of my job is that I only get one day off a week and have to be on call 24/7. I am paid salary but usually work around 60 hours a week (have worked upwards of 75 hours in one week before, though, guh).



If I lost my job right now, there is no doubt we'd be homeless. It's pretty scary.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by vanillacat »

I think the underlying current you guys are mentioning isn't disturbing at all.



Someone like the former executives mentioned probably had a really bright future up until they lost their jobs - they had the motivation through high school, probably went to a nice college, worked their way up to where they were, as an executive. Then to lose it all? All of that effort spent making yourself more qualified and a better job candidate?



If I was an executive who had lost my job, and am now working a job that's on the same pay level as, say, my old classmate, the one who blew off class to do pot and party while I toiled over my grades - yeah, I'd be pissed.



The former executives found jobs, and that's admirable, and the fact that they're lowering themselves to take lesser jobs is admirable too, but... I don't know. I'd feel like I wasted my time and life trying to succeed.



I feel more pity for the average person who works incredibly hard yet can't be successful, but... I have no sympathy for the aforementioned classmate - I worked harder, I deserve better.



I don't know. Who's to say whether a person "deserves" a job or not? Who's to tell whether you're a slacker who could do better, or a struggling worker who can't? I guess from my stance, as a current student, I see far too many people pissing away their opportunities, and I can't stand that. These kids come from well-off families, and it's just a bloody waste of human for them to be off partying when I'M working my ass off to try to succeed at school.



... This makes no sense, I'm sorry. Someone wanna pull sense out of my rant? The worst of it all is, I consider myself a liberal Democrat, all for spreading the wealth and making rich executives give more to the masses. Yet, I can sympathize greatly with the former executives... I don't know. I honestly don't know. I'm off to go ponder now.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by JPope »

[quote name='BeForJess' post='61174' date='Mar 1 2009, 10:59 AM']There's a horrible part of me that is happy to see people humbled back into the world most of us have to live in, where you can't always make ends meet no matter how hard you stuggle.[/quote]

I think more people think like this than don't, and I will never, ever, ever understand what makes a person think like this. Other than abject jealousy, that is.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by vanillacat »

I figured myself out!



I dislike gross wealth. I also dislike gross poverty. Minimum wage is terrible, and those executives spending $50,000 on an office chair is terrible. Thus, my ardent support of increased taxes on the wealthy. I'm paraphrasing, but a woman interviewed for an article in the Washington Post put it this way: "My family earns more than $150,000 - and we will continue to be able to live comfortably off of that money despite increased taxes. We're all in this economy mess together, and this isn't the time for the wealthy to be griping about individual losses."



However, I still thinking social classes are usually just and are a result of millenniums of commercial expansion, blahblahblah civilization, so and so forth. So! It's not as if these former executives are lying, cheating bastards who are being sent to jail for fraudulence; these were, presumably, honest citizens who had made their way up the ladder.

Granted, there could be some spoiled bastards who got the positions from daddy and never worked a hard day's labor in their life - but I'm going to presume that the average executive who used to earn six-figures probably had a job in college, if not in high school. They were already at the earning-$12-an-hour stage in their life, and after years of working their way up to a better job, they're back down to where they started, with their circumstances even more dire now that they have a family to support and whatnot.



There's no one who's right or wrong - basically, this whole economy thing is just a pile of mess. I, well, pity... everyone?
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by makky »

I wonder if any of the people in this article (since there was no mention of it specifically) thought about cutting back on the more unnecessary expenses (ones they might even consider absolutely necessary but aren't), like gym memberships, new car payments, etc. I mean, there are things one can get rid of and do without without being "poor." I mean, the people in the article still make way more money than I do (even at their new, low-paying jobs), and I live waaaay below the poverty line and do without quite a bit.



So I really wonder what kind of things people in that position consider "absolute necessities" that they can't get rid of. That would be interesting to find out, IMHO.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by JPope »

[quote name='vanillacat' post='61320' date='Mar 2 2009, 12:56 PM']and those executives spending $50,000 on an office chair is terrible.[/quote]

I'm curious as to why you think this is terrible.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Liana »

To me, one of the most interesting parts of this article is the fact I would kill for what these people are making in their "peon" jobs! I guess it'd be different if I had a family to support or something, but even then I WAS supported on retail pay as a child and turned out okay. These people are whining about 12 dollars an hour with a guaranteed 40 hour week? I'd kill for that! Right now I'm lucky if I'm scheduled 32 hours and I don't even want to talk about what I make. If I made 12 bucks an hour, 40 hours a week I'd be ROLLIN'! I could buy name brand at the grocery store! I could maybe even buy an Xbox <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sideways:' /> What are these people buying that they need so much money?
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Pflaume »

[quote name='Liana' post='62539' date='Mar 20 2009, 10:40 AM']To me, one of the most interesting parts of this article is the fact I would kill for what these people are making in their "peon" jobs! I guess it'd be different if I had a family to support or something, but even then I WAS supported on retail pay as a child and turned out okay. These people are whining about 12 dollars an hour with a guaranteed 40 hour week? I'd kill for that! Right now I'm lucky if I'm scheduled 32 hours and I don't even want to talk about what I make. If I made 12 bucks an hour, 40 hours a week I'd be ROLLIN'! I could buy name brand at the grocery store! I could maybe even buy an Xbox <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sideways:' /> What are these people buying that they need so much money?[/quote]



If you're a single person, I actually sort of agree with this. Recently, I lived on just above minimum wage where the hours fluctuated from 20 to 40 with no true warning either way, and THAT is irritating. 12/hour for 40 hours a week is a dream come true.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by sadude »

It also depends on the cost of living where they are.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Liana »

That's very true, I have a pretty rockin' pad in a decent part of Minneapolis and when people from higher cost of living type areas learn what I pay in rent and bills month-to-month, they pretty much want to kill me. 12 an hour here and you're a baller, it's not the same as 12 an hour in NY or something. Still, I guess the point is . . . You know, you have a job. That's incredibly important, if not RARE at this point in time. And it's a job making money that some people would kill for, even if it's not what they're used to! I'm just not having a lot of pity.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by BeForJess »

Over here 12 bucks an hour would be pretty sweet, too. Most jobs around here start at around 8 or so.



As far as getting by and whatnot... To get by, my husband and I have cut out a lot of things, like cable TV, internet (I am a leech now), buying non-necessities like books, movies, cds, etc., we are frugal about when we go out to eat and have watch our grocery bill very closely. We only turn on the heat to 60 degrees in the winter to save on that bill, too.



Of course, we do buy things for ourselves once in a while - I used 400 dollars of my tax money to get this nice new netbook to replace my 6-year-old and hardly alive Toshiba laptop - but overall we just watch what we spend very closely.



Hopefully it's not that bad for long since my husband was just given more hours at his job, but no guarantees since it is commission-based. Just gotta keep hoping!!
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Vikitty »

I'm paid 16.50 an hour here which isn't bad since I'm NOT on salary, I'm part time. If you're hired on contract, you can be anywhere from 20-25$ an hour but no benefits.



It's a far cry from when I was in retail -- our minimum wage is also 8 which is just sick.



I want to move out soon but prices are still so high here (and it's a small town!) that I'm nervous.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by peachgirldb »

I was working for 5.40 before they raised the federal minimum wage.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Windy-chan »

[quote name=':Peach' post='62604' date='Mar 21 2009, 12:21 PM']I was working for 5.40 before they raised the federal minimum wage.[/quote]



I feel you. At one point, I was working minimum wage - $5.15 at the time. I usually couldn't get more than 20 hours a week.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Ap2000 »

[quote name='vanillacat' post='61320' date='Mar 2 2009, 07:56 PM']and those executives spending $50,000 on an office chair is terrible.[/quote]



People buying brand cloths are even more terrible.

Their effect on the economy is far bigger than a few guys buying some chairs, that most of the time actually have some use, like more comfortable when you have to sit in it for 10 hours.



It's all a matter of perspective.



Nearly everybody, who has it, throws out money for useless stuff that they could rather give to charity.

However, I don't know about you, but I don't live in a communist country and I'm sure as hell happy I don't, because here I at least have a chance to make something out of my life.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by JPope »

[quote name='Ap2000' post='63028' date='Mar 28 2009, 05:41 PM'][quote name='vanillacat' post='61320' date='Mar 2 2009, 07:56 PM']and those executives spending $50,000 on an office chair is terrible.[/quote]



People buying brand cloths are even more terrible.

Their effect on the economy is far bigger than a few guys buying some chairs, that most of the time actually have some use, like more comfortable when you have to sit in it for 10 hours.[/quote]



Here's the thing, though: neither is bad. Both are good for the economy. When someone or some company buys something really expensive, the money they spend on it goes to support the company that sold it to them, as well as that company's employees. It also goes to support the company who manufactured the expensive thing, and their employees. It also goes to support the company which sold the raw materials to the manufacturer in order to build the expensive thing, and the employees who culled those raw materials. All along the way, the federal and local governments get their share in the way of business and sales taxes, too. A lot of normal people rely on filthy rich people spending their money on wildly expensive shit in order to support their families. The fact that a company could get by with a $50 chair instead of a $1,000 chair is irrelevant. If they can afford the $1,000 chair, who the hell is anybody to tell them they shouldn't have it? Back in the 90s, the Clinton Administration levied a massive surcharge on yachts over $100,000. Guess what happened to the domestic yacht industry? It went to hell, and a lot of middle-class workers lost their jobs, because people who are rich enough to spend $100,000 on a yacht are rich enough to buy it overseas, where they weren't subject to the surcharge. The law of unintended consequences tends to affect those least able to afford those consequences. The government should just STFU when it comes to people spending their money on whatever the fuck they feel like spending it on.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by AEUGNewtype »

[quote name='Valerie' post='62590' date='Mar 21 2009, 11:58 AM']I'm paid 16.50 an hour here which isn't bad since I'm NOT on salary, I'm part time. If you're hired on contract, you can be anywhere from 20-25$ an hour but no benefits.



It's a far cry from when I was in retail -- our minimum wage is also 8 which is just sick.



I want to move out soon but prices are still so high here (and it's a small town!) that I'm nervous.[/quote]

What kind of job is this? And where do you live? It sounds weird if everything you said was pertaining to one job. $16.50 an hour on part time? And a job that pays 20-25 an hour with no benefits?



I still have 2 jobs even though one is 40+ hours a week and the other is about 20 a week, both are paying $11-12 an hour, but I had to fight to get a raise to that point at one of them, and on the plus side, the one does have hefty commission pay, and I feel like a king on this budget, because I was used to just-above minimum wage jobs pretty much my whole life up until now.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by tsukinobyouin »

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='63513' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:47 PM']What kind of job is this? And where do you live? It sounds weird if everything you said was pertaining to one job. $16.50 an hour on part time? And a job that pays 20-25 an hour with no benefits?[/quote]



No idea what kind of job Valerie was talking about, but a lot of contract/temp work pays high hourly rates with no benefits. The firm I work at hires contract attorneys and contract translators to work here as needed, and they get paid $80-100+ an hour with no benefits.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by AEUGNewtype »

[quote name='TnB' post='63529' date='Apr 9 2009, 08:19 AM'][quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='63513' date='Apr 8 2009, 10:47 PM']What kind of job is this? And where do you live? It sounds weird if everything you said was pertaining to one job. $16.50 an hour on part time? And a job that pays 20-25 an hour with no benefits?[/quote]



No idea what kind of job Valerie was talking about, but a lot of contract/temp work pays high hourly rates with no benefits. The firm I work at hires contract attorneys and contract translators to work here as needed, and they get paid $80-100+ an hour with no benefits.

[/quote]

Yeah, I guess that's true. I forgot that those industries/fields also use contractor work. Contract agencies are a great place to find work if you're willing to prove yourself, but also keep in mind, as long as you stay contracted and are not hired onto a company full time, the agency will take a percentage of your paychecks for themselves, on top of taxes, and (at least the one I've worked for) some of them do offer benefits, but they have certain requirements and of course you have to pay for them. That would suck quite a bit to be working one of those $80-100 per hour jobs then having 10-15% of it being taken out for taxes, then another 10-15% being taken out for agency fees, when you think about how much a paycheck would be.
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Re: Forced From Executive Pay to Hourly Wage

Post by Vikitty »

I'm a service rep at a credit union. :] I make 16.36, part-time, full benefits. The company I work for has been voted one of the top 25 companies to work for for the past 8 years, and it shows. The CEO came for a coffee session last month and informed us that while we are in a hiring freeze, there will be no layoffs during this crisis. (It's bad in Canada, too). However, since we're not hiring, we'll be crosstraining to learn other positions. For example, I'm going to be crosstraining as a PAR (personal account rep) 1 day a week for a while. I'm excited!



My previous job was at Credit Union Central of BC, as a Manuals Production Coordinator and Executive Assistant. It was a 6-month contract as the previous person was on sick leave (burst appendix). I made 21.00 an hour, full-time, but no benefits. I left after four months because the commute was just too difficult, but my experience helped me get the job at a CU in town. :]
Last edited by Vikitty on Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
HOLD UP! I'M A GEEK THE BIG PARADOX!
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