Old Disney vs. new Disney

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Pflaume' post='62077' date='Mar 12 2009, 05:17 AM'][quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='62056' date='Mar 11 2009, 08:19 PM']Man, you really are a hate machine <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' /> And don't have very good reference material or experience to base it on, either.[/quote]



I want to frame this moment, hang it over my bed and kiss it every morning. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' />



For the record, AP... it's not that your ideas are bad, it's just that they're so negative. All the time. It's remarkable, really. I wonder if your face is frozen in a disapproving sneer. It's beautifully German of you. Wait, you're Austrian, right? Why aren't you more cheerful? (Joke, joke.)



The fact that one of the biggest party poopers on this board thinks you're a downer is pretty hardcore, though. I'll make you a Schwimmbad-torte to celebrate. (For the record, AEUG-- you back up your bitching pretty thoroughly, so it actually never drove nuts.)

[/quote]



hah I had a similar thought after reading his post. lol

I just have no problem with disliking things I guess.

I generally consider something worthless to me, unless it's really good or outstanding.

[vanillacat]

The editorial I turned in, for better or worse. I was kind of loopy while writing it (I downed like three Cokes AND took one of my Ritalin, so I was kind of all over the place), but... I dunno. It might have turned ok?

True story: I was looking through the magazine rack at the grocery store, and saw the April 2009 issue of Cosmopolitan. “Oh, that’s cute,” I thought, “They put Barbie on the cover! It is Barbie’s 50th anniversary, after all…”



In fact, the girl on the cover of the magazine was Ashley Tisdale of High School Musical fame. Oops.



The unnatural-looking cover might have been the product of overzealous Photoshop work, but I think it had more to do with Ashley Tisdale herself, and the nose job she got after experiencing “breathing problems.” Real girls and play dolls these days are equally made of plastic, it seems.



This incident illustrates some of the things about the “newer” Disney, particularly the Disney Channel, that make me uncomfortable. The Disney Channel of today is bright, sparkly, and youthful, featuring acts such as Miley Cyrus and Vanessa Hudgens – but it’s also faker than, well, Ashley Tisdale’s nose.

My 13-year-old brother watches their shows, like The Suite Life of Zack and Cody, and I absolutely cannot stomach them. They’re overacted and juvenile, and silly in a way that, despite being targeted at a younger audience, is not even cute. Children’s shows can be very precious, but somehow these new Disney Channel shows leave a bitter taste in my mouth.



It doesn’t help that I – and many others, throughout generations – hold a very idealized image of Disney, cultivated in our youth. The first movie I ever saw in movie theaters was The Lion King. I was about 3 years old. From then on, I was raised on a steady diet of classic animated Disney, and the old films still serve as movie comfort food.

Even in more recent times, Toy Story and WALL-E and are sweet and delightful, and never tacky. There’s lots of laughs, but there’s also deeper themes: Toy Story deals with feeling replaced, and WALL-E has a serious message about waste. These films make the Disney Channel shows look shallow, pointless, and cheap.



I’ve been to Disney World four times and Disneyland once – and like the movies, I go to immerse myself in a world of fantasy, of Pooh and Nemo and Cinderella. When I go to the theme parks, I can’t help but feel like I’m floating above the real world, like I’ve entered a universe of innocence and childlike joy - only to be jarred out of it whenever I see Miley Cyrus’s mug plastered on yet another t-shirt, or if I hear that “hit song” of hers in which her voice has as many computer effects done on it as Disney’s Pixar movies.



I suppose the point I’m trying to make here is that Mickey Mouse has never gotten in a scandal with scantily clad photos or received surgery on his snout. When Ariel sung “Part of Your World” in The Little Mermaid, she didn’t need a computer program to make her voice sound lovely and pure.



Young girls – and, strangely enough, girls my age – look up to these manufactured pop idols, and to me that’s just producing problems. At least when I was little and wanted to be Belle from The Beauty and The Beast, I was striving for a totally unreachable goal – literally two-dimensional.

But, with all of these real-life Barbies strutting around, little girls have a living, breathing (presumably; I’m not entirely sure they’re not robots) girl to model themselves after. Barbies are pretty, but their heads are empty inside, and I know I definitely don’t want easily influenced kids to think this is ideal.

[Geof]

I have no opinion of Disney Channel programs, because I am not twelve.





As for Disney movies, damn near everything since Little Mermaid has been Little Mermaid With Different Scenery, Characters And Songs. And most of the time, the songs are pretty damn interchangeable. Thank the god I don't believe in that Pixar came along & mercifully kept the number of songs down.





Best Disney movie ever? Tie between Mary Poppins and Sword & The Stone.

[Liana]

[quote name='Geof' post='62170' date='Mar 12 2009, 10:50 PM']I have no opinion of Disney Channel programs, because I am not twelve.[/quote]

I just want to take this moment to point to your avatar <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' /> <3 Okay I actually have no clue what the hell that is, but I assume it is a cartoon robot of some sort and unless Japan has made a mature anime about cartoon robots after cartoon robot college, struggling with their lives, I assume it is meant for children.



Aeug pointed out a lot of why I think Disney and H!P- not only H!P, really, but the Japanese idol model as a whole- are really similar. Especially with how Disney Channel stars get packaged as these actual people. Let me see if I can word this XD



When I still lived at my mother's and my little sister had the Disney Channel on all the time, there would be all these commercial insert things where the Disney Channel stars talked about stuff. Like their favorite books to promote reading or something. And while I don't think things like Demi Lovato and Selena Golmez's joint video blogs were anything but friends fooling around, Disney seems to love letting these things happen and letting us have a little down-home glimpse of the stars as-is. To me, it seems like some of the Stars are doing that thing idols (at least, good ones) do- creating a character for themselves that they present publicly. IE the silly prankster Ai Kago has been revealed to be an entirely different person from the "real" Ai Kago. While all American celebrities do this to an extent and Disney people have yet to go all the way and be like "Hey, let's make a show where the cast of HSM just hangs out and we dangle meat over their heads" (though I do know they do some kind of summer sports . . . thing, I haven't seen though I want to!), watching the Disney channel star's interactions and out of character glimpses is just as fun to me as it is to watch idols, and almost as encouraged by the both. I don't think that made much sense. Whatever, I tried XD



I can never watch iCarly without being sad it's not a spinoff of her character in Drake and Josh. My favorite guilty pleasure kid show is Wizards of Waverly Place, it's got RIDICULOUSLY painful concepts and puns yet are really fun about them and Selena Golmez's delivery makes me laugh, even when the lines are dumb. I wish I could watch it more <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />

[neshcom]

I didn't find old Disney to be some life-changing experience and I find the portrayal of what tweens probably want to see dumb. I don't wanna jump in, but I think modern tween shows are less interesting than shows I was growing up with (but their shit is stuff and my stuff is shit <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' /> )

[Red Raccoon]

[quote name='Liana' post='62175' date='Mar 12 2009, 09:02 PM'][quote name='Geof' post='62170' date='Mar 12 2009, 10:50 PM']I have no opinion of Disney Channel programs, because I am not twelve.[/quote]

I just want to take this moment to point to your avatar <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' /> <3 Okay I actually have no clue what the hell that is, but I assume it is a cartoon robot of some sort and unless Japan has made a mature anime about cartoon robots after cartoon robot college, struggling with their lives, I assume it is meant for children.

[/quote]

Dude, seriously.



My wife watches some of those Disney kids shows, and I'd make fun of her for it, but since I'm usually reading comic books while she's watching them, I wisely think better of it.....

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Red Raccoon' post='62192' date='Mar 13 2009, 07:39 PM']Dude, seriously.



My wife watches some of those Disney kids shows, and I'd make fun of her for it, but since I'm usually reading comic books while she's watching them, I wisely think better of it.....[/quote]



There are also comic books and manga with very adult themes, whereas that's not the case with children shows (I'm not talking about disney's large-screen movies however) stuff.

[peachgirldb]

My sister's watching The Suite Life right now and I just remembered another reason I hate the show:



"Zack... why are you wearing a skirt?"

"I did it so we could win money for bikes."

"Oh, thank goodness."

[Geof]

[quote name='Red Raccoon' post='62192' date='Mar 13 2009, 10:39 AM'][quote name='Liana' post='62175' date='Mar 12 2009, 09:02 PM'][quote name='Geof' post='62170' date='Mar 12 2009, 10:50 PM']I have no opinion of Disney Channel programs, because I am not twelve.[/quote]

I just want to take this moment to point to your avatar <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> <3 Okay I actually have no clue what the hell that is, but I assume it is a cartoon robot of some sort and unless Japan has made a mature anime about cartoon robots after cartoon robot college, struggling with their lives, I assume it is meant for children.

[/quote]

Dude, seriously.



My wife watches some of those Disney kids shows, and I'd make fun of her for it, but since I'm usually reading comic books while she's watching them, I wisely think better of it.....

[/quote]

Not denying that I'll watch cartoons that are fully intended for kids (hell, I'm planning to catch the new episode of Transformers Animated tomorrow.) My comment was about the Disney Channel, which to the best of MY knowledge is a lot of non-cartoon programs for young kids, featuring young kids, since that's what's always on whenever I tune in. And for god's sake I even listed Sword & the Fucking Stone as one of the best Disney movies ever, your point is moot.



For the record, my avatar is from Shin Getter Robo, an anime miniseries that I highly doubt should be shown to young children. Again, not denying I'll watch kid-stuff, just a point of order on that.



Point of odor: You stink! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Liana]

[quote name='Geof' post='62214' date='Mar 13 2009, 09:04 PM']Point of odor: You stink! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />[/quote]

Um, your mother, good sir.



I really just thought it was hilarious that there was this "I am not 11 *cartoon robot*" post XD Though it is really interesting to see where your 'That's too childish' line since it's different from mine but that'd a whole new topic.

[Melon]

I can't stomach the tween programing for one simple reason - I hate sitcoms. I can't stand the laugh tracks, the simple (self contained) plots, the sets, everything. I've tried to watch them, but I can't make it past the first five minutes. The only exception is I Love Lucy.



I can still recite the entire Little Mermaid script in time with the film - I watched it that often when I was small. My dream was to be an animator working at Disney, making one of their films. If you look at the old Disney films, their animation has so much LOVE into it. It may not have the 3 grade shading anime has, but it has wonderful character. The way the characters' faces morph through emotions, the detail in the backgrounds (some could pass as paintings), the voices (back when they got actual voice actors v "big" name stars), the scripts, the sheer fluidity of the animations.



I do give a hand to their marketing machines. Damn, I am amazed at what dreck gets the DISNEY STAR treatment. I miss their mascot characters. I'd rather see Mickey plastered on everything than a five year old picture of Miley.

[eri]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Frog Princess movie coming out? It has generated a ton of controversy already.



I'm really excited for the next NEXT movie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapunzel_(film)

As much as I dislike the blond blue-eyed prototypical princess schtick, this quote promised greatness beyond the Disney formula they've hacked the last few years:

he’s going back to Rapunzel’s literary origins to do a traditional, character-driven fairy tale that speaks to a modern audience

and the artwork is really beautiful.

The film will be made in CGI, though Rapunzel will resemble traditional oil paintings on canvas

[vanillacat]

[quote name='mEri' post='62224' date='Mar 14 2009, 04:42 AM']Does anyone have an opinion on the Frog Princess movie coming out? It has generated a ton of controversy already.[/quote]



[quote name='WIKIPEDIA']It was later revealed that Tyra Banks was considered for the role as well.[/quote]



<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' />



I think it'll probably end up ok, as long as they steer away from anything - ANYTHING - that might be misconstrued. WALL-E had that whole "save the earth, waste is bad!" thing going on, but I don't think this is a good movie to get all political in, so they'll probably play it safe. Plus, the jazz era was generally a pretty good time for all parties/races/etc., so unless Disney really wants to pilot an agenda, they probably won't. Probably.



I just hope the public doesn't get their panties in a twist. Apparently it was a big deal that the Character's name was going to be Maddie, which was an "inferior Anglo-Saxon-derived slave name". I mean, really? I just thought Maddie was a cute name, but clearly I'm ignorant. How WASP-y of me.

[ShinUkyo]

I think people are over-glamorizing the olden-days movies and shows. Sure, for sentimental reasons, people often get attached to the era they grew up in. When they see the products that are marketed to later generations, they have a natural impulse to draw back. But listen, I'm one of the most sentimental fools that you'll ever meet. And I'm usually of the mindset that, "They just don't make 'em like they used to." And in many ways, it's obviously true. But on the other hand, as much as I adore the classics, I can also appreciate modern things for simply what they are. And even with as many downgrades as they make to modern productions, they also always have a good amount of improvements thrown in as well. There's always a balance of some sort. People just don't tend to notice the improvements, half the time, because they view those olden-days productions through rose-colored glasses.



But in reality, the flaws have always been there. Whether it's the cheesy over-acting, the recycled and predictable plots, and the cookie-cutter musical score. This is nothing new to Disney, and certainly nothing new to the world of movies or sitcoms. And on the same point, there's nothing wrong with any of these aforementioned "flaws." When you ask for "Pop," you get POP. The beauty of pop music and pop television... is that they can take the simplest of methods and make them immensely enjoyable. Using the same basic chord progressions, comedic timing, or romantic storytelling that people have enjoyed for hundreds of years. Just package them differently, in a way that works well, and there you have your pop content. And for me personally, I love pop content from the new millennium just as much as I love pop content from the 1960's.



Take two examples from my own youth, shows that I was a big fan of. Chip & Dale's Rescue Rangers, which premiered in the Disney Afternoon. And Saved By the Bell; which was syndicated as well, but actually premiered as a Disney Channel show (long story). I hear people all the time, praising either of these shows left and right. Saying how, "They were cheesy, but also very fun and likeable. They had a real charm." And then those same people will bitch about the current-generation of Disney shows, calling them "trash." But if you sit down and watch those classic shows nowadays, come on. How are the current Disney shows, either animated or live-action, any worse than those 1980's ones were? In fact, most of the modern Disney shows have better acting, humor, and production than either of the aforementioned classics. I can say this from experience, as I've avidly followed almost every Disney show since the early 1980's. I've also avidly watched the stuff from decades before that, mind you I had to catch it in reruns.



If you're the kind of person who truly enjoys pop television, you'll find that a lot of the modern Disney shows are actually quite entertaining. But of course, much like anything in life, you have to give them a chance. You have to watch it, in a comfortable atmosphere, and typically do so by yourself. If you're watching it for the first time, along with other people who have already formed an opinion of the show, their opinion is just going to taint your experience. If it's with a group who really likes the show, and the environment is completely free of stress, you'll most likely find yourself liking the show as well. But if it's the type of people who are always telling you to like it, then it may have the opposite effect on you. You may have a very hard time liking the show, in that case. Much like how it's hard to like something when people are constantly telling you how awful they think it is. Outside influence, while it can sometimes be good, is more often a bad thing. It can unfairly swing you in either direction, engaging your natural response to either go with the flock or to run completely against it. Don't make yourself watch the shows just because your little niece likes them. And don't sit there over-analyzing and grumbling, either, because all your friends said the shows are trash. Just let it be.



It's like in the olden days, when we would discuss ways to "try and get our IRL friends hooked on Hellopro music." There were threads about it, and everything. But we eventually noticed how the strongest Hellopro fans were usually the ones who discovered it on their own. Or at least the ones who were kinda nudged toward it, and allowed proper room to breathe and explore. But in cases where folks tried to push Hellopro music on their friends, those friends would rarely take very well to it. Even in the cases of people whose musical tastes mimic the style of Hellopro extremely well. It's proof of how human nature plays a huge part in whether we'll end up liking something, and often times the quality of the product barely even matters. Because when you look to the root of things, you can always find the good in them. But that takes a level of open-minded and objective examination that is tough to achieve. It's something we can't just tell ourselves to feel, it has to come naturally.



[quote name='Pflaume' post='62077' date='Mar 11 2009, 10:17 PM'][quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='62056' date='Mar 11 2009, 08:19 PM']Man, you really are a hate machine <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... iggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> And don't have very good reference material or experience to base it on, either.[/quote]

I want to frame this moment, hang it over my bed and kiss it every morning. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> [/quote]

Same here! I was just saying this to Steve a few days ago, on the phone. He'd mentioned how one of the BBS members was being belligerent about everything, and was the new official BBS hatemonger. Hating on stuff, like those Disney Channel shows, even though they didn't have any real experience with the subjects in question. How they were basing their own negative opinion on vague or second-hand information. To this, I replied, "See! See how it feels?" <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Because he was complaining about the very same thing that he used to always do himself. But Steve has gotten immensely better about this kind of thing over the past few years... and people don't give him enough credit for it most of the time. Hopefully, in seeing some of Ap2000's responses in this thread, they can realize that Steve is actually quite open-minded a lot of the time.



And yeah, what Ap2000 said about these modern kids' programs was actually the opposite of the truth. Sure, they often show the kids being selfish, materialistic, deceptive, and other bratty things such as that. But in the end, their bad behavior ends up hurting themselves and the ones they care about. And through these negative consequences, they learn what really matters in life. Loyalty to their family and friends, substance over style, and all that good stuff. Much like a good parent, these shows don't just TELL kids what's right and what's wrong. They show you that, most of the time, kids have to learn these things for themselves. Often times, by making their own mistakes. And of course, yes, they package this all up in a very pretty and poppy little package. That just helps it sell better, to the masses. It helps to initially 'hook' you. But the underlying message is there, and the vast majority of people will pick up on it. That 'substance' is what will KEEP you watching the show. A good metaphor for this would be... dating a girl, I guess. Her looks, and other physical/outward things, are what is initially required in order to hook you. But her substance is what will keep you there, and is even more important in the end. And if either of these aspects were completely absent, it would not work. You need both.

[Ap2000]

Hey, at least I don't insult anybody.

[Red Raccoon]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='62196' date='Mar 13 2009, 10:50 AM'][quote name='Red Raccoon' post='62192' date='Mar 13 2009, 07:39 PM']Dude, seriously.



My wife watches some of those Disney kids shows, and I'd make fun of her for it, but since I'm usually reading comic books while she's watching them, I wisely think better of it.....[/quote]



There are also comic books and manga with very adult themes, whereas that's not the case with children shows (I'm not talking about disney's large-screen movies however) stuff.

[/quote]



There certainly are, and I read some of them too. However, the last time my wife was watching Hannah Montana, I was reading Spider-Man, so........





[quote name='Geof' post='62214' date='Mar 13 2009, 06:04 PM']Not denying that I'll watch cartoons that are fully intended for kids (hell, I'm planning to catch the new episode of Transformers Animated tomorrow.) My comment was about the Disney Channel, which to the best of MY knowledge is a lot of non-cartoon programs for young kids, featuring young kids, since that's what's always on whenever I tune in. And for god's sake I even listed Sword & the Fucking Stone as one of the best Disney movies ever, your point is moot.[/quote]

I don't see a big difference between watching an animated show intended for kids and watching a live action show intended for kids. Frankly, I've done both in my adult life, although I admit I usually prefer the animated stuff.