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LOST

Post by Ap2000 »

After I decided to not make my first thread being one about alcohol, I had the idea about discussing LOST and it's weird-ass theories.



Quick summary (for the few guys/gurls who really don't know about it):

LOST is one of the most-viewed shows since it's beginning. It's a mixture of character developement, mystery, scifi and suspense with a little bit of flashes from other time periods inbetween.

The basic story is that an aircraft crashes onto an island (THE island) and the survivors try to survive. However, there seem to be other people on the island and... something that scares the crap out of them at night. It's not a one-person-centered show, but rather tells the story of several of the survivors. If you're even remotely interested in tense and mysterious stuff, then you've got to watch the first two season, as they are pretty much the best written scripts in a long time.

Another big part of the LOST experience (that's what ABC calls it) are the alternate reality games and connections to the real world.



btw, please use some kind of spoiler-tags/alarms. LOST is one of the shows where crucial spoilers can ruin a whole season.

Oh, and watching this series in summer really enhances the experience, well, at least to me.



(now, spoilers and stuff)



I absolulely loved the first two seasons, they were extremely intense, I even bought the dvd boxes because I couldn't wait to watch them on tv/in the interbutts.

Then came the ingenious season 3 opening (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IEQLJmubF8 remember ?) and I was expecting even better stuff to happen.

However, I got the feeling that it was loosing it's mystery touch and revealed stuff in an uninteresting way, but I still liked the season.

But then came season 4... time-traveling and everything made it just ridicilous and ended in the whole island being farted away by Locke. While I liked the idea of flashforwards, I also would have loved to see some flashbacks. I was thinking about not watching LOST anymore, but I decided to keep on watching, as I'm really interested in the characters and the DHARMA Initiative.

Thankfully S05 was again interesting, with the characters coming back to the island. Besides, I though the twist, they actually turn out to be DHARMA members was quite extremely awesome.



Now onto some more detailed things and thoughts I recently had.



The last two episodes in S05 are called "The Incident", this probably referes to the first incident in the hatch.



Seeing as how currently most people are DHARMA members, do you think some of them will die when Ben kills off his ol' camp ?



Richard Alpert has a very egyptean-style (mainly the eyeliner) to him, is he in any way connected to the huge statue ? It looked like some egyptean god statue. Besides, he doesn't seem to age at all, maybe he's an egyptean god-like being ?



I recommend you to read http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page, especially if you haven't played/participated or at least read up on the alternate reality games.



Only 4.5 (considering the last one will be a double-feature) more to go and hopefully we'll have some more answers, w00t !

The site has a huge amount of little things a normal LOST-watcher would never see.
Last edited by Ap2000 on Wed Apr 08, 2009 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LOST

Post by Zounder »

Hey, another LOST fan!



(mild spoilers, obviously)



Tonight's episode (Dead is Dead) was simply fantastic, my favorite episode of the season so far. There was a bit of a lull this season, (like there was in season 4), but it seems like everything is back in full swing. Michael Emerson is amazing in his portrayal of Ben. He delivers lines in a perfect "Ben" fashion. I'll hold off on spoilers for this episode since it just aired, in case somebody tivo'd it or something.



I reference Lostpedia and read DarkUFO regularly, looking for all those tidbits that you mentioned. I use Lostpedia to refresh my memory of old occurrences and DarkUFO posts a couple in-depth analysis for each episode, and they're excellent reads for die-hard fans.



I caught the episode "Walkabout" on TV and that's what got me started on Lost. Season 2 was probably my favorite season, the whole button-pushing thing was intriguing. And I loved the idea of the DHARMA Initiative. Even to this day, I love all the constant DHARMA references they make, so of course I was thrilled to see them stuck in DHARMA time. =D



I agree that, at first, I was iffy about the whole time-travel thing but I've gotten used to it. And with the whole "Whatever happened, happened" rule, it's not like they're doing anything completely off the wall with the time travel thing. It seems the main thing that viewers are getting out of the time travel sequence is that we get to see the history of DHARMA and the island firsthand! It's not like people are changing the future, we're just seeing how everything played out in the past, and how it always -had- and always -will- play out.



But yeah, this is by far my favorite show on television right now. Good to see somebody start a thread! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />
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Re: LOST

Post by Ap2000 »

[quote name='Zounder' post='63524' date='Apr 9 2009, 05:34 AM'](mild spoilers, obviously)



Tonight's episode (Dead is Dead) was simply fantastic, my favorite episode of the season so far.[/quote]



Just saw it myself and I also liked it.

Finally some new info on Ben and I think I was right with my assumption on who Richard is, I think the board Ben looks at before "it" comes out made it pretty clear what kind of mythology LOST is set in.



EDIT:

2 Facts (lostpedia quoted) that proofs the connection to egyptian mythology/past even more:



While Walt is studying birds of Australia, he mentions he doesn't care about birds of Australia and says "shouldn't we be studying birds of Egypt or something?". ("Special")

Hurley is seen drawing a picture of an Egyptian sphinx. ("The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham").



and I think we all remember the glyphs in The Hatch.



It seems The Temple has been assimilated (I really don't believe the DHARMA people actualy built it, contrary to the other stations) by the initiative:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Temple



You also might want to check out the hieroglyphs page:

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Hieroglyphs



2. EDIT:

I decided to make this my personal dump for LOST theories and anybody is welcome to join this. lol

A really interesting thing, that kinda did get overlooked is, that Locke seems to have no thoughts about his afterlife. He seems to remember everything (in S05E12 "Dead is Dead"; he talks about how Ben killed him), yet he has no memories about when he was dead.

During watching Dead is Dead, I was surprised to see Ben being surprised that Locke was rejuvenated. Afterall, Ben seemed (nearly) dead when he was brought to The Others. Maybe Ben himself died too and the episode title is actually the reference to Ben's death ? However, that wouldn't explain his memory loss, seeing as how Locke still has his memory, after the island re-activated (I use this word, because it seems the island really has a purpose for him) Locke.

But why did Ben change into a different character after Richard healed him in/via the temple, yet, Locke pretty much stayed the same ?
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Re: LOST

Post by Zounder »

To add on to the list of Egypt references is also the statue, which somebody from DarkUFO pinpointed to be The Egyptian Goddess of Fertility, pictured here, based on the angle we saw it from. It's also holding an Ankh, representing eternal life.



[quote name='Ap2000' post='63531' date='Apr 9 2009, 10:07 AM']A really interesting thing, that kinda did get overlooked is, that Locke seems to have no thoughts about his afterlife. He seems to remember everything (in S05E12 "Dead is Dead"; he talks about how Ben killed him), yet he has no memories about when he was dead.

During watching Dead is Dead, I was surprised to see Ben being surprised that Locke was rejuvenated. Afterall, Ben seemed (nearly) dead when he was brought to The Others. Maybe Ben himself died too and the episode title is actually the reference to Ben's death ? However, that wouldn't explain his memory loss, seeing as how Locke still has his memory, after the island re-activated (I use this word, because it seems the island really has a purpose for him) Locke.

But why did Ben change into a different character after Richard healed him in/via the temple, yet, Locke pretty much stayed the same ?[/quote]



I agree that Ben's reaction to seeing Locke alive was very surprising. To me, the big question is this: Who was Ben telling to truth to? Locke, when he said that he indeed knew Locke was going to come back to life, and he explains his shocked reaction as "seeing it is a little different than believing", or was he telling the truth to Sun, when he said he was completely shocked and terrified that Locke was alive? It is worth noting that in that conversation with Sun is where the title "Dead is Dead" comes from. There's evidence to both sides of the argument:



Ben knew Locke would be revived:

-In LA, Jack asks "He -is- dead, isn't he?" And Ben just kinda looks at Jack without saying anything.

-Ben seems to know how stuff works on the island (at least, up until this episode, where we can see Locke making the final transition into being the all-know, no-telling spiritual leader of the island) so he would know this kind of stuff.



Ben -didn't- know:

-His reaction to seeing Locke

-What he says to Sun

-When he kills Locke in LA, he says something along the lines of "It was nice knowing you... It really was" speaking in the past tense as if Locke would not come back to life.



I'm starting to believe he really didn't expect it. He just knew Locke had to be on the plane to play the "dead body" role.



Some other random thoughts:



-I'm very interested in knowing what exactly Alpert's role is with the others. He obviously isn't the "leader" but he's been around forever and he seemingly has some kind of position of authority, perhaps some kind of eternal checks-and-balances type system with the others.

-The banter between locke and Ben in Dead is Dead was top notch. Every conversation was well acted and well written. "You don't know the first thing about what the island wants!" "Are you sure about that?" We slowly see Ben and Locke switch places, symbolized by Locke sitting down in Ben's old desk, and verbalized when Ben points out how he hates not knowing what's going on, and Locke responding, "Now you know how I felt."

-I'm also looking forward to getting to know a bit more about the Swan and it's initial purpose. I mean, we all know it was prevent some electromagnetic disaster, but if it was that important, why weren't the others manning the station to really make sure that button was pushed? why did the button start being needed to be pushed in the first place? Does this have to do with "The Incident?"

I'm wondering why Smokey decided to let Ben live. Is it because he repented/admitted his sincs, unlike Eko in "The Cost of Living?" Or is it because the island simply isn't done with him yet? We can clearly see that Smokey is not happy with Ben when it manifests as Alex... "Listen, you bastard!" so there's a chance Smokey -wanted- to kill Ben, but knew the island needed him. But the first option is still entirely possible, is is probably the one I'm leaning toward right now.

-This is a pretty good analysis of Dead is Dead.
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Re: LOST

Post by Ap2000 »

[quote name='Zounder' post='63541' date='Apr 9 2009, 10:50 PM']"seeing a is a little different than believing"[/quote]



I think that refered to himself (Ben) surviving the crash.
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Re: LOST

Post by Zounder »

[quote name='Ap2000' post='63542' date='Apr 9 2009, 06:54 PM'][quote name='Zounder' post='63541' date='Apr 9 2009, 10:50 PM']"seeing a is a little different than believing"[/quote]



I think that refered to himself (Ben) surviving the crash.

[/quote]



I don't have access to the episode, but from Lostpedia: "Ben exhibits surprise that Locke is alive, but tells Locke that he expected his resurrection." I'll probably end up watching the episode again, so whenever that happens I'll pay careful attention to the exact dialogue. Regardless, the point of the quote (and the point of my mentioning it) was that it seemed like Ben was trying to justify his surprised face to John, and that he was trying to convince John that he knew he was going to be resurrected.



Also, I fixed the typo in that quote.
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='63543' date='Apr 10 2009, 12:04 AM']that he was trying to convince John that he knew he was going to be resurrected.[/quote]



"he" as in Locke or Ben ? lol
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Ap2000' post='63559' date='Apr 9 2009, 11:04 PM'][quote name='Zounder' post='63543' date='Apr 10 2009, 12:04 AM']that he was trying to convince John that he knew he was going to be resurrected.[/quote]



"he" as in Locke or Ben ? lol

[/quote]



"That Ben was trying to convince John that Ben knew John was going to be resurrected."



There ya go. =D Just seemed that way to me based on what how I remember the conversation going. But who knows what's going on inside Ben's head...
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Re: LOST

Post by Ap2000 »

So I guess we two are pretty much the only ones in here that like it.
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Re: LOST

Post by Zounder »

[quote name='Ap2000' post='63652' date='Apr 13 2009, 02:26 PM']So I guess we two are pretty much the only ones in here that like it.[/quote]



Yep...



So last night's episode was pretty good. We got more of Miles flashback material than I was expecting. Can't wait to see who these "Shadow of the Statue" people are.
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='63781' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:16 AM'][quote name='Ap2000' post='63652' date='Apr 13 2009, 02:26 PM']So I guess we two are pretty much the only ones in here that like it.[/quote]



Yep...



So last night's episode was pretty good. We got more of Miles flashback material than I was expecting. Can't wait to see who these "Shadow of the Statue" people are.

[/quote]



I strongly think (Read: HOPE) they are connected to Richard and his "timeline" (or whatever you might want to call it) or at least the first (?) people on the island, the DHARMA people had a conflict with.

iirc what those guise asked has been asked before already. (although not Miles)



And I never saw it coming who Miles' father was. haha

However, I'm pretty sure we will see his father die during the show, seeing as how he said he doesn't remember him well and he died when he was really young.

Maybe he even murders him ? Or somebody of the 815 crew ?



btw, I' so into the numbers in the show, when they briefly showed the appartement number his mother was looking at, I was disappointed it was 104, instead of 108. lol
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Re: LOST

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I strongly think (Read: HOPE) they are connected to Richard and his "timeline" (or whatever you might want to call it) or at least the first (?) people on the island, the DHARMA people had a conflict with.


I agree. I was SO convinced Ilana was a Widmore lackey and that she was sent to make sure Sayid got on that plane, but it's pretty apparent now she and the rest of the statue crew are -not- affiliated with Widmore. It makes sense too think they're maybe "old" other like you said, in the same bracket as Alpert, or perhaps affiliated with Dharma. Or maybe just some random new crew.


iirc what those guise asked has been asked before already. (although not Miles)
Yep, Ilana asked Lapidus when he returned to the crash site, before getting knocked out. =O It seemed like it was used as a code phrase, in the same sense as "what did the snowman say to the other snowman?" from season 2 in the hatch.


However, I'm pretty sure we will see his father die during the show, seeing as how he said he doesn't remember him well and he died when he was really young.

Maybe he even murders him ? Or somebody of the 815 crew ?


Well, we know he survives "The Incident" based on the Swan orientation video, and he is missing an arm. My theory is that something happens to make him aware of the fate of Dharma (The purge, or something else) and he forces his wife and Miles to leave to protect them. And this would be why Miles doesn't remember him much. Then, his fate after that remains a mystery to me.



Have a look at this if you haven't seen it yet. This was shown at Comicon, and probably gives us some hints as to Chang's role. (Ignore the semi-lame opening and ending, I'm pretty sure it was staged for dramatic effect.)
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='63793' date='Apr 17 2009, 02:47 AM']Well, we know he survives "The Incident" based on the Swan orientation video, and he is missing an arm. My theory is that something happens to make him aware of the fate of Dharma (The purge, or something else) and he forces his wife and Miles to leave to protect them. And this would be why Miles doesn't remember him much. Then, his fate after that remains a mystery to me.



Have a look at this if you haven't seen it yet. This was shown at Comicon, and probably gives us some hints as to Chang's role. (Ignore the semi-lame opening and ending, I'm pretty sure it was staged for dramatic effect.)[/quote]



However, Chang MUST have died off the island and Miles must have had contact with his body, how else should he know if it was his father, when he met him on the island ?



Yeah, I've seen/read all of the AR game stuff. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':joyful:' />



EDIT:

This is interesting:

"Bram Stoker is the author of Dracula, the most famous "undead" person in literature. Bram is usually a nickname for Abraham, as it was for Stoker. Stoker also wrote The Lair of the White Worm and The Jewel of Seven Stars. The first is about an ancient serpent living under an English manor, leading its inhabitants to the occult. The latter is about an attempt to reanimate an Egyptian mummy."

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Bram
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Ap2000' post='63830' date='Apr 17 2009, 11:25 AM']However, Chang MUST have died off the island and Miles must have had contact with his body, how else should he know if it was his father, when he met him on the island ?[/quote]



Miles says something along the lines of, "I started to think something was up when I saw my mom behind me in the lunch line. I started to put everything together from there." I'm presuming this meant that Miles kept an eye on her, and eventually found himself as a baby and Chang to be her husband, thus his father. So I don't think it's a must for Chang to have ever left/died off the island. My theory is that Chang saw something bad happening in the future thanks to one of the losites explaining it to him (as evidenced with the Comicon video), and decided to save his family by forcing them to leave and not explaining why, which explains why Miles has no memory of the island and why Miles' mother has a grudge against Chang.



That bit about Bram is interesting, they do a great job with naming the characters. I was trying to figure out what the significance of "Caesar" was until he took a blast to the chest.
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Re: LOST

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Wow, the last episode was quite shocking again.

It's really weird how even the weirdest things (except for the time-shifts lol) suddenly start to make sense. haha



And the "announcement" Richard made... will they REALLY do that ??
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Ap2000' post='64355' date='May 7 2009, 05:24 PM']Wow, the last episode was quite shocking again.

It's really weird how even the weirdest things (except for the time-shifts lol) suddenly start to make sense. haha



And the "announcement" Richard made... will they REALLY do that ??[/quote]



Yeah, everything is slowly falling into place now, it seems. I can't wait to see what happens when Locke meets up with Jacob. I REALLY hope we get to learn more about Jacob, and soon. Jacob is the thing I'm most curious about in this show. I was so excited when they went to his cabin before, so naturally I'm definitely excited about what's going on now.
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='64368' date='May 9 2009, 12:39 AM'][quote name='Ap2000' post='64355' date='May 7 2009, 05:24 PM']Wow, the last episode was quite shocking again.

It's really weird how even the weirdest things (except for the time-shifts lol) suddenly start to make sense. haha



And the "announcement" Richard made... will they REALLY do that ??[/quote]



Yeah, everything is slowly falling into place now, it seems. I can't wait to see what happens when Locke meets up with Jacob. I REALLY hope we get to learn more about Jacob, and soon. Jacob is the thing I'm most curious about in this show. I was so excited when they went to his cabin before, so naturally I'm definitely excited about what's going on now.

[/quote]



So true, hopefully it will be as good as Scrubs' finale, which was absolutely beautiful.

I've been watching that series for 8 years and it came to such a satisfying end, that for the first time in a tv series, I've even had tears in my eyes.



I really hope LOST will be able to do that next year too.
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Re: LOST

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<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whatthe:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ek3run.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':eekrun:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ecrazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':eyecrazy:' />



^Timeline of me watching the finale.



WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED



I'll refrain from spoilers for the moment in case you haven't seen it yet. Craziness!
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='64514' date='May 14 2009, 06:45 AM']<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whatthe:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ek3run.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':eekrun:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ecrazy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':eyecrazy:' />



^Timeline of me watching the finale.



WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED



I'll refrain from spoilers for the moment in case you haven't seen it yet. Craziness![/quote]



It was weird, but the whole island disappearing was a bigger WTF moment imho.



I think Jacob and the other guy are just playing a game, they are stuck in a time loop or something.



The other guy was re-incarnated as Locke if you'd ask me.



However, not everything is clear to me yet. I'm going to read up on everything on lostpedia now, to see how many details I missed out on. lol

Man /tv/ (in case you know what I'm talking about) is just going crazy. haha



btw, Jack's suddenly perfect shooting skills were somehow weird. lol
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Re: LOST

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I think Jacob and the other guy are just playing a game, they are stuck in a time loop or something.


My theory is that Jacob's enemy is possibly the smoke monster, maybe banished into that form by Jacob at some point. This would make perfect sense, because it explains how Locke is walking around (as you said), and why the smoke monster told Ben to do everything Locke said. it was all an elaborate ruse to find this "loophole" into killing Jacob.



I LOVED the dialogue between Ben and Jacob at the end. over the past two seasons or so, we have seen the decline in Ben's character from a leader to a nobody from both our perspective as an audience and his own perspective, as well as the perspective of Locke and everybody else. This conversation represents the absolute rock bottom, as it is finally confirmed by Jacob himself that he is indeed a nobody (or just about), as far as the island is concerned. ("What about you?") All this time, Ben just wanted to be acknowledged... he didn't get it from his father, and he couldn't even get it from Jacob.



One real interesting thing to take away from that scene is that Jacob put up VERY little of a fight. He told Ben that he had a "decision" (which he also told Hurley), and then kinda let Ben do his thing. If he had answered Ben in a bit nicer, caring manner, he could have saved himself. But he didn't. Was it because he knew his death was inevitable? (Course correction?) Was it because he knew Ben would kill him no matter what was said? Was it because he wanted (needed?) to die?


However, not everything is clear to me yet. I'm going to read up on everything on lostpedia now, to see how many details I missed out on. lol

Man /tv/ (in case you know what I'm talking about) is just going crazy. haha


Is that from 4chan? But yeah, I was on lostpedia earlier and ran into the Esau/Jacob tidbits, which is interesting. Just check out Jacob's page for details.


btw, Jack's suddenly perfect shooting skills were somehow weird. lol


Yeah every Lost character tends to have amazing shooting skills whenever they pick up a gun (with the exception of Faraday).
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='64557' date='May 15 2009, 07:33 AM']Yeah every Lost character tends to have amazing shooting skills whenever they pick up a gun (with the exception of Faraday).[/quote]



Jack went from wreck-tier to perfect-shooting-with-a-nuke-on-my-back-tier. haha



Somehow I got the feeling, that they put too much Jacob into this double-episode.

They should have given away a few things earlier already, maybe even in Season 4 already.
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Ap2000' post='64563' date='May 15 2009, 05:33 AM'][quote name='Zounder' post='64557' date='May 15 2009, 07:33 AM']Yeah every Lost character tends to have amazing shooting skills whenever they pick up a gun (with the exception of Faraday).[/quote]



Jack went from wreck-tier to perfect-shooting-with-a-nuke-on-my-back-tier. haha



Somehow I got the feeling, that they put too much Jacob into this double-episode.

They should have given away a few things earlier already, maybe even in Season 4 already.

[/quote]



I would compare this episode in nature to "The Man Behind the Curtain" from season 3 (Ben's first flashback.) That was the first episode we "saw" Jacob, his cabin, etc. and it was the first Ben flashback in which we saw his past, and also the first time we saw Dharma in the past. Essentially, it was a flood of information about new material. Now, I personally loved that epsiode (and this one) so I don't mind having an episode be crammed with information like this. But, the main reason I compare these two episodes is that even though it felt like there was so much info revealed in both episodes, after TMBTC we came to realize there was still a TON we didn't know about Ben, Dharma, Jacob, etc. so I feel like this episode was just the tip of the iceberg regarding Jacob and his nature.
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Re: LOST

Post by Ap2000 »

[quote name='Zounder' post='64589' date='May 16 2009, 12:08 AM']I would compare this episode in nature to "The Man Behind the Curtain" from season 3 (Ben's first flashback.) That was the first episode we "saw" Jacob, his cabin, etc. and it was the first Ben flashback in which we saw his past, and also the first time we saw Dharma in the past. Essentially, it was a flood of information about new material. Now, I personally loved that epsiode (and this one) so I don't mind having an episode be crammed with information like this. But, the main reason I compare these two episodes is that even though it felt like there was so much info revealed in both episodes, after TMBTC we came to realize there was still a TON we didn't know about Ben, Dharma, Jacob, etc. so I feel like this episode was just the tip of the iceberg regarding Jacob and his nature.[/quote]



That was NOT Jacob. =P

He looked completely different and more importantly, Jacob actually didn't live in the cabin anymore. ("What lies in the shadow of the statue ?")



However, I agree with you, that this was another step above the past events. Like, at first we saw the LOST universe from a more zoomed-in/microcosmos view with tailies and our view reached higher and higher levels of views.

It's hard for me to describe exactly in english what I meant, but I hope you get what I wan't to say.
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Re: LOST

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However, I agree with you, that this was another step above the past events. Like, at first we saw the LOST universe from a more zoomed-in/microcosmos view with tailies and our view reached higher and higher levels of views.

It's hard for me to describe exactly in english what I meant, but I hope you get what I wan't to say.


Yep, I understand what you mean and I agree, the show has progressed very nicely that way. It's nice to finally get some "grand scheme" viewpoints after waiting so long!


That was NOT Jacob. =P

He looked completely different and more importantly, Jacob actually didn't live in the cabin anymore. ("What lies in the shadow of the statue ?")


Yeah, that's why the "saw" was in quotes. It's quite possible we haven't seen Jacob at all, in ANY way shape or form, until today. Perhaps this other guy has been responsible for all appearances (like christian, etc.) and the cabin stuff, or it could be a mix of both. Whatever the case, I'm sure we've at least seen his enemy at -some- point (like the cabin) and I'm curious as to whether Jacob can't control his enemy, or simply doesn't care what he does. Jacob seems to be a taking a very lassiez-faire approach to what happens on the island.. or maybe he hasn't, since we really don't know who is responsible for what yet.
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Zounder' post='64596' date='May 16 2009, 02:36 AM']Yeah, that's why the "saw" was in quotes. It's quite possible we haven't seen Jacob at all, in ANY way shape or form, until today. Perhaps this other guy has been responsible for all appearances (like christian, etc.) and the cabin stuff, or it could be a mix of both. Whatever the case, I'm sure we've at least seen his enemy at -some- point (like the cabin) and I'm curious as to whether Jacob can't control his enemy, or simply doesn't care what he does. Jacob seems to be a taking a very lassiez-faire approach to what happens on the island.. or maybe he hasn't, since we really don't know who is responsible for what yet.[/quote]



There was an (imho) extremely interesting theory on lostpedia:



"Perhaps Jacob's enemy took the form of Christian, thinking he could kill Jacob that way, but when he realized that Jack was Christian's son and that he could not get Ben to go along with it, he had to wait until the right dead body came along for him to control."



That made the most sense (in a lost-sense-way lol) to me.



As I said, I think Jacob and "Esau" (as he is titled by many) seem like playing a game against eachother.

Do you think of the laissez faire principal because he didn't try to convince Ben ?





btw, two very interesting things that correlate to the bible:



- Jacob was led to believe that his favorite son, Joseph, was dead after Joseph's brothers sold him into slavery. After the brothers went to Egypt during a famine, Joseph set up his brother Benjamin for a crime he did not commit, then revealed his true identity to his brothers and demanded that the brothers bring Jacob to Egypt. Only then did Jacob learn that Joseph was still alive.

- The tribe of Benjamin's women and children were all killed,(just as Ben Linus's "tribe" was killed) and the remaining members of the tribe could not longer proliferate. The historical solution they came up with was to kill the men from another sub-tribe and take their women and children. Women are unable to carry to term on the Island, and the Others have been taking women and children from Oceanic Flight 815.
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Re: LOST

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[quote name='Ap2000' post='64597' date='May 15 2009, 09:56 PM']As I said, I think Jacob and "Esau" (as he is titled by many) seem like playing a game against eachother.

Do you think of the laissez faire principal because he didn't try to convince Ben ?[/quote]



Yeah definitely, he just kinda let Ben do his thing, which could have stemmed from the whole laissez faire mentality. He also mentions people having "choices (Hurley, Ben) when he speaks, which ties in with that mentality. But interestingly, if he's so laissez faire, why did he go out andtry and bring people to the island in the first place? Why did he go to Kate, Sawyer, Jack, etc. and do whatever he did to (supposedly) get them to the island?



That second biblical reference is REALLY interesting...
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Re: LOST

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This just in (actually, I read it on Lostpedia, but this sounds extremely convincing):



Jacob's enemy is the Smoke Monster in human form. When it took Alex's form, it told Ben to do exactly as "Locke" said, suggesting a connection between the two.

-> Except when Ben told 'John Locke' about what Alex had told him, he seemed genuinely surprised.

-> -> More like just acting surprised to play the role of Locke, plus he's probably surprised that Ben actually is willing to follow John. He was testing to ensure Ben actually would follow his instructions.

-> The man (Titus Welliver's character) himself is not Jacob's enemy. Rather, the Monster is Jacob's enemy, and it is using the nameless man's body to interact with Jacob. Upon approaching Jacob, the man declines Jacob's offer of fish, stating that he "just ate." This is the Monster's way of conveying to Jacob that he has just killed and is now animating a dead body.

-> Agreed, only it is using his FORM not BODY, as it does with Locke when the body is still in the coffin.





And some other stuff that is pro-smoke monster:



- Ben says to Sun, "What's about to come out of that jungle is something I can't control." Seconds later, Locke emerges. Ben is unaware that he was correct, and cannot control Locke, because he is the Monster (Jacob's enemy).

- Jacob does not refer to the Monster (Jacob's enemy) by name, because as Ben said, "we don't even have a word for it".

- As the man approaches Jacob on the beach, Jacob wishes him good morning before seeing his face. Later, Jacob recognizes Locke as his enemy, even though Locke never revealed himself to be anyone other than John Locke. It's possible that Jacob sees these animations of the Monster (the man on the beach, Locke in Jacob's home) for what they really are - dead and therefore inhuman.

- The Monster has been referred to as Cerberus, in mythology Cerberus is the dog that guards the underworld. If Jacob's enemy is Anubis (the god of the underworld) then the connection between the Monster and Jacob's enemy may become clearer as both entities have involvement with the underworld and the dead.



- It is also possible that Jacob's enemy simply pretended to be Jacob in that context in order to enrage Benjamin Linus, who had never seen Jacob, by appearing to John Locke without preamble.

- This could be considered the first step in his plan to eventually assume Locke's identity, building Ben's hatred of Jacob as best to make eventual use of him as the tool for Jacob's murder.
Last edited by Ap2000 on Sat May 30, 2009 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LOST

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Ap, you following any of the ARG/random Lost related events for the past couple weeks? I'll tag this is as a spoiler just in case.



A bunch of old cast members (Charlie, Boone, etc.) Are coming back, and the first episode title is confimed to be LA X... seems like we're either getting a reset or some kind of dual timeline. I suspect a dual timeline, because the also said that there will be a new type of plot device in Season 6 that hasn't been used before, and it isn't flashbacks or flashforwards. So flashing to the alternate timeline where they never crashed seems to fit that description, but who knows.



I'm not quite sure how I feel about that, but Damon and Carlton have repeatedly said to trust them, so I'm just gonna wait and see what happens, hoping it all comes out making sense in the end.



Then there's that new ARG going on with the painting and the Mysteries of the Universe segments, which I haven't gotten around to watching yet, but will soon.



I also participated in DarkUFO's Episode Cup which was kinda fun.



Can't wait for the next (and last <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... pyeyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> ) season to start already.
Last edited by Zounder on Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LOST

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I keep looking at the lostpedia frontpage every 2 or 3 days, but except for the Lost University (I did register, but haven't gotten any e-mail from them) there's nothing new there.



EDIT:

However, it seems there really is something going on.

This thread sums it up very well:

http://www.spoilertv.co.uk/forum/viewtopic...665&start=0



That guy with the gigantic tooth gap is so annoying though...
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Re: LOST

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What kinda bothered me lately (I just started re-watching from the beginning, though I will probably only watch the first 3 season) was the reason for the inverted ending logo in the last S05 episode at the very end.



It seems this "black vs. white game" talk that is going on even has an effect on what I think about the ending screen of each episode now !



Remember, at the end of every single episode there's usually the black background and LOST written in the center.

But, now it's the other way round, it's inverted.



Let's say Jacob and his enemy do have a game (or even a fight) against eachother going on.

So far everything that happened, has happened in favor of Jacob's enemy. What happened so far lead up to the event, that Jacob was finally injured by his enemy.

Basically, it's like a game of Backgammon (Locke explains it in the first season to Walt as a game of good against evil) and Jacob's enemy has made his moves up until now, that's why we always saw the black ending screen.

However, now, it's Jacob's turn and that's why we see the inverted/white ending screen. What will Jacob do ?



Taking this even further down the road:

In Backgammon (and most other classic 1on1 board games like chess etc.) both players start out at the exact same position.

Does this mean, we will now see how Jacob moves his figures ?
Last edited by Ap2000 on Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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