LOST

[Zounder]

That's a good theory.



It reminds me of something I was thinking about awhile ago. I'm pretty sure (And I think this was confirmed in some podcast) that until this past finale, we had not seen Jacob at all. Which means that everything we've seen was either the man in black or something else entirely. Which supports your theory completely-- now we see Jacob's side of things, and maybe he's gonna take an active role in what happens next. We did see him "die"... but who knows?



On another note... I really hope we haven't seen the end of the real Locke. It would be so sad to see his character, built up season after season as a vessel for the goodness of the island, to die as somebody who was used and misled. It makes sense, I guess, given that most of his interactions with the island were with the man in black... But I am holding out hope that maybe the island/Jacob reawakens him somehow.

[eri]

Huh - I haven't been following this thread even though I'm a big LOST fan. Off season, I tend to forget the story line! Maybe it is time to slowly rewatch the show now that we're inching closer to Feb.



That is a really good theory and I had forgotten all about the game playing from season 1. What makes me wary about speculating about Jacob is at this point is, we first meet him when he's cooking up a red herring! Red herrings are like, literary devices that mislead the reader into following what they assume is a symbol -- but only leads to a dead end.



[quote name='Zounder' post='68239' date='Aug 31 2009, 08:13 PM']..

On another note... I really hope we haven't seen the end of the real Locke...But I am holding out hope that maybe the island/Jacob reawakens him somehow.[/quote]

Everything has "reset" so I feel like this enables them to bring back Locke. He is probably my favorite character (now that they killed off faraday and ran out of things to do with Desmond) and they can't possibly kill him off completely without a chance to redeem himself or his life.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Zounder' post='68239' date='Sep 1 2009, 05:13 AM']On another note... I really hope we haven't seen the end of the real Locke. It would be so sad to see his character, built up season after season as a vessel for the goodness of the island, to die as somebody who was used and misled. It makes sense, I guess, given that most of his interactions with the island were with the man in black... But I am holding out hope that maybe the island/Jacob reawakens him somehow.[/quote]



Flight 815 was full of people that had some daddy issues, a crappy past or some other mental problem.

In the end, anyone would have done. It's just that Locke was the one, that was the easiest to convince that he's special and thus will have to do the sacrifice.



That's how I see it.





And hello, mEri, joining us in our little round. (It has been a duet so far here lol)

I'm just re-watching Season 1 & 2 (the only ones I got on DVD) and there was so much stuff going on that I had already forgotten about... a re-watch at least of the first 3 season is really worth it.



However, we can't be too sure if actually some kind of reset that happened. How would the DHARMA Intiviative know about "The Incident", if everything gotten reseted prior to what happened ?

[eri]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='68261' date='Sep 1 2009, 03:55 AM']And hello, mEri, joining us in our little round. (It has been a duet so far here lol)[/quote]

Yes hello! I love LOST. I should rewatch season 1 (yay I actually own this legally). I feel like they are going to return to some of the canonical themes of the show and wrap up the mysteries from the early seasons. Did they ever explain the forest whispers?



[quote name='Ap2000' post='68261' date='Sep 1 2009, 03:55 AM']However, we can't be too sure if actually some kind of reset that happened. How would the DHARMA Intiviative know about "The Incident", if everything gotten reseted prior to what happened ?[/quote]



I think they were always putting the whole "what ever happened, happened" theory in tension with the notion of the human variable. Maybe the reset didn't happen, over and over and over -- which falls in line with the Jacobs saying that humans are continually put to the test and failing.



This time, I think there was definitely *something* that was reset at the end. When Juliette detonated the bomb, the screen went white for the first time and it played into the entire play of good/evil. This theme has been going on for a long time since it is embedded in the very language of who/what is "Other" -- that the Others are really the good guys, etc -- and the black/white, evil/good, past/future binaries.



As for Locke, I disagree that anyone could have fit. Locke seems to me the most tragic of all of the characters - his loneliness, self-awareness, fatalistic faith in some higher power, and his suicide. Only Locke believed in the power of the island. They've been tip-toing around some twisted Christian allegory there too: the self-sacrifice of the pathetic and mocked believer to rescue the rest of humankind and lead them to the answers. Only this time, Locke was not resurrected to symbolize man's rebirth. Locke's guise was instead used by the seeming devil (I just call him dark-Locke haha) -- what does THAT mean? I also don't know what it means now that Jack has "converted" from skeptic to believer....



Wait- i just remembered something.



White-clothed Jacob was also "sacrificed" - I suspect this means he will also resurrect...

[Ap2000]

[quote name='mEri' post='68292' date='Sep 1 2009, 09:41 PM'][quote name='Ap2000' post='68261' date='Sep 1 2009, 03:55 AM']However, we can't be too sure if actually some kind of reset that happened. How would the DHARMA Intiviative know about "The Incident", if everything gotten reseted prior to what happened ?[/quote]



I think they were always putting the whole "what ever happened, happened" theory in tension with the notion of the human variable. Maybe the reset didn't happen, over and over and over -- which falls in line with the Jacobs saying that humans are continually put to the test and failing.



This time, I think there was definitely *something* that was reset at the end. When Juliette detonated the bomb, the screen went white for the first time and it played into the entire play of good/evil. This theme has been going on for a long time since it is embedded in the very language of who/what is "Other" -- that the Others are really the good guys, etc -- and the black/white, evil/good, past/future binaries.



As for Locke, I disagree that anyone could have fit. Locke seems to me the most tragic of all of the characters - his loneliness, self-awareness, fatalistic faith in some higher power, and his suicide. Only Locke believed in the power of the island. They've been tip-toing around some twisted Christian allegory there too: the self-sacrifice of the pathetic and mocked believer to rescue the rest of humankind and lead them to the answers. Only this time, Locke was not resurrected to symbolize man's rebirth. Locke's guise was instead used by the seeming devil (I just call him dark-Locke haha) -- what does THAT mean? I also don't know what it means now that Jack has "converted" from skeptic to believer....



Wait- i just remembered something.



White-clothed Jacob was also "sacrificed" - I suspect this means he will also resurrect...

[/quote]



I'm just going to stick with my theory, that now Jacob is going to do his moves. =P





as for the whispering in the forst; I'd say they come from Smokey and/or Jacob's enemy (probably the same thing).





Hey, I just had a great idea.

Maybe they're going to indefinitely repeat this 5 seasons, but with different camera angles and costumes !

Oh wait...





btw, I just watched the Comic-Con 2009 LOST Panel thing and these are the things that stood out of me:

(skip it, if you plan on watching it, it's up in HD on youtube)



- A guy asked if Jacob has appeared to the Flight 815 guys on the island as something or someone else (like Claire, Christoph) and Damon said NO. -> So Smokey/Jacob's enemy seems to have planned everything so far. [which does add up to my theory of them playing their game]



- They want to deliver a similar feeling like Season 1 had.



- Who/What Richard is will be explained.



- A Huge amount of DHARMA stuff. Apparently it's going to be explained how the food "drop" happened in Season 2. (my guess; some kind teleportation)



- Somebody mentioned it would be cheap if everything happened until now would have been completely erased and it seems they agreed.



- Farraday and Juliet will appear in Season 6.



- At the very end of the conference/"panel" Charlie came up (but he didn't say anything) and while waving hands to the people wow-ing and clapping around like crazy, there was "Am I alive ?" visible on his palm.

[eri]

re: spoilers



oooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



shoot, i need to do some work. Will post later when I have time to start rewatching haha.

[Zounder]

Huh - I haven't been following this thread even though I'm a big LOST fan. Off season, I tend to forget the story line! Maybe it is time to slowly rewatch the show now that we're inching closer to Feb.



That is a really good theory and I had forgotten all about the game playing from season 1. What makes me wary about speculating about Jacob is at this point is, we first meet him when he's cooking up a red herring! Red herrings are like, literary devices that mislead the reader into following what they assume is a symbol -- but only leads to a dead end.

..

On another note... I really hope we haven't seen the end of the real Locke...But I am holding out hope that maybe the island/Jacob reawakens him somehow.

Everything has "reset" so I feel like this enables them to bring back Locke. He is probably my favorite character (now that they killed off faraday and ran out of things to do with Desmond) and they can't possibly kill him off completely without a chance to redeem himself or his life.

Welcome to the discussion! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nceman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':geof:' /> And I think we share the same favorite characters in Locke, Faraday and Desmond. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':geof:' />

As for Locke, I disagree that anyone could have fit. Locke seems to me the most tragic of all of the characters - his loneliness, self-awareness, fatalistic faith in some higher power, and his suicide. Only Locke believed in the power of the island. They've been tip-toing around some twisted Christian allegory there too: the self-sacrifice of the pathetic and mocked believer to rescue the rest of humankind and lead them to the answers. Only this time, Locke was not resurrected to symbolize man's rebirth. Locke's guise was instead used by the seeming devil (I just call him dark-Locke haha) -- what does THAT mean? I also don't know what it means now that Jack has "converted" from skeptic to believer....

Agreed. Perhaps Locke's legacy will be in giving faith to Jack... maybe that will come into play at some point. Sort of like the mentor who dies a tragic death and the hero learns a valuable lesson and uses it to save the day.



Also, in reference to the spoilers: Watching that was what led me to be almost certain that the man in black was responsible for things in past seasons, like the visions. Another interesting thing I got out of that conference (or maybe this was a different interview?), which addresses the possibility of a "reset": They said that they were pretty much done with the flashback/forward scheme, and it will be replaced with something new. My theory is that there will now be two timelines: The current timeline, and the altered one. And remember, the first title of the episode is "LA X"

[Ap2000]

Yeah, I also had the thought of paralell universe-flashes (or timeline, in the end I guess it's the same lol) could be possible in S6.

[eri]

(...do we need to use spoiler tags in a conversation of 3?)



I was thinking about parallel universes, but I don't think it quite fits with the show and it seems kind of like a cop out if they went that way. The last few seasons have insisted upon a kind of temporal play -- it was always time, not space:

When are they, not where are they.

We've seen how the past explains and informs the present (flash backs/ flash forwards). So time here is directly linear with clear cause/effect.

We've also seen debates about fate (or, whatever happened, happened) with an idea of time as linear, but looped. Or, looped over so that different timelines can overlap BUT maintaining that linearity of cause/effect. This is very different than a universe of time and space splitting with every possibility. So, the altered timeline, according to LOST logic, is still THE timeline and not one of two (or more) possibilities.



They might have something about a non-temporal space though -- especially now that they're bringing these quasi-god, time-jumping characters and will explain Richard Alpert. In my mind, that would amount to a plot split between the going ons in the "timeless world" and the "altered timeline" of the Losties.

[Zounder]

[quote name='mEri' post='68373' date='Sep 2 2009, 09:02 PM'](...do we need to use spoiler tags in a conversation of 3?)



I was thinking about parallel universes, but I don't think it quite fits with the show and it seems kind of like a cop out if they went that way. The last few seasons have insisted upon a kind of temporal play -- it was always time, not space:

When are they, not where are they.

We've seen how the past explains and informs the present (flash backs/ flash forwards). So time here is directly linear with clear cause/effect.

We've also seen debates about fate (or, whatever happened, happened) with an idea of time as linear, but looped. Or, looped over so that different timelines can overlap BUT maintaining that linearity of cause/effect. This is very different than a universe of time and space splitting with every possibility. So, the altered timeline, according to LOST logic, is still THE timeline and not one of two (or more) possibilities.



They might have something about a non-temporal space though -- especially now that they're bringing these quasi-god, time-jumping characters and will explain Richard Alpert. In my mind, that would amount to a plot split between the going ons in the "timeless world" and the "altered timeline" of the Losties.[/quote]



The whole concept of a full-on "reset" puts a bad taste in my mouth, really. As does the concept of parallel timelines. I don't like the idea of even a single thing that's already happened being rendered null and void. I fully 100% bought into the "Whatever Happened, Happened" theory, and part of me still wants to believe that. After all we saw no evidence otherwise in the finale. The only reason I now question this is all the hints we're getting about next season. But I have faith in the writers, and that everything will end up working out... somehow.



Another way to look at the parallel theory is this: perhaps it doesn't really get split into two, but overlaps. As in, the "current" Jack, Kate and crew get sent back to the "present" or wherever, really. But, by detonating the bomb, they changed their own past, so their they have other versions of themselves in the "present" living their lives as if the lane never crashed. So you have Jack's crew on the island existing at the same time as their other selves. Changing the past didn't make their present selves vanish, it just changed the timeline for their past selves.



Now, this would need a LOT of explaining, and I'm not sure I would be happy with it all that much. But I see this as a bigger possibility since the split timeline theory would not make for a good plot device, since characters from each timeline would not be able to interact... or would they? If they did, that would take even MORE explaining and would probably be way too overcomplicated.



So, basically, I'm still in partial denial about any kind of reset. I would be happy if they just appeared back in the present and were like "Well, I guess that didn't work."

[Ap2000]

[quote name='mEri' post='68373' date='Sep 3 2009, 03:02 AM'](...do we need to use spoiler tags in a conversation of 3?)



I was thinking about parallel universes, but I don't think it quite fits with the show and it seems kind of like a cop out if they went that way. The last few seasons have insisted upon a kind of temporal play -- it was always time, not space:

When are they, not where are they.

We've seen how the past explains and informs the present (flash backs/ flash forwards). So time here is directly linear with clear cause/effect.

We've also seen debates about fate (or, whatever happened, happened) with an idea of time as linear, but looped. Or, looped over so that different timelines can overlap BUT maintaining that linearity of cause/effect. This is very different than a universe of time and space splitting with every possibility. So, the altered timeline, according to LOST logic, is still THE timeline and not one of two (or more) possibilities.



They might have something about a non-temporal space though -- especially now that they're bringing these quasi-god, time-jumping characters and will explain Richard Alpert. In my mind, that would amount to a plot split between the going ons in the "timeless world" and the "altered timeline" of the Losties.[/quote]



Ok, let's just make a SPOILERS AHEAD thing, whenever we find something new. =P



They've done the flashforward/backs and said they will definitely not come back, so what else can they do ?

My guess is they'll show us how things would have happened if A was the case or how it would have happened if B was the case. (Maybe even as in "under Jacob's influence" and "under his enemy's influence")



@Zounder; That's actually one of the possibilities with this "parallel flashes" (easier than "flashes that somehow involve a kind of parallel timeline/universe") and I'm pretty sure we'll see something like that. We'll have to wait and see as to what exactly it's going to be though.





As for the Locke thing I said above; I think you misunderstood me. I meant "In the end, anyone would have done." as in, he (Jacob's enemy) brought all these damned souls that were on Flight 815 to the island so that he can pick one of them. I think he wasn't sure from the beginning which one is going to be the person that's going to sacrifice (kill and return) for him, he might have even been playing with Eko around. But seeing as how he didn't repent his sins, he wasn't the right person.

What I don't understand though, is why John had to die off the island and why he didn't just occupy, for example, Eko's body.



btw, I also think that Jacob's Enemy can't leave the island.

[Zounder]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='68406' date='Sep 3 2009, 12:58 PM']What I don't understand though, is why John had to die off the island and why he didn't just occupy, for example, Eko's body.[/quote]



I think Locke had to die off the island because some island force (Jacob?) was protecting Locke from dying on the island, hence the crazy healing powers.



And I think Eko couldn't have done the job because he didn't have any kind of position of power with the Others. Getting Locke into the leader position was part of the MiB's plan.



And we pretty much see that locke was never really meant to be their leader, as he fails Richard's test when he was a kid. That was a very early hint that Locke's fate might have been tampered with.



When you think about it, MiB's plan is really brilliant. The time flashes allowed for Richard to have the mindset that Locke was destined to be their leader, so then Locke crashes on the island and MiB sets to work in making Locke feel special. so then he slowly develops into the leader of the others, and MiB tampers with Ben's view of Jacob. Then, using the flashes again, he convinces Richard to convince past Locke that he needs to leave the island, thus allowing him to die due to Ben's developed hatred of him. Then he uses the smoke monster appearance to get Ben to follow all of his orders, and lastly he gets Ben to kill Jacob. That all must have taken some intense planning!

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Zounder' post='68409' date='Sep 3 2009, 07:56 PM']That all must have taken some intense planning![/quote]



"You have no idea what I've been through." haha



But since they're in some kinda time-loop I guess he had a lot of time(s) to think about it !



EDIT:

btw, I thought this video about all the dead LOST characters was beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VK3H-yJJ3c

Though I kinda did miss Christian.

[Ap2000]

I'm now pretty much convinced Widmore is a good guy.



After watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJrO4B0QNqo



He didn't want Locke to die and he wants him to go back to the island alive, so Jacob's enemy can't reincarnate.



However, I still don't get how there can be two Lockes, one in the coffin and one walking around. I guess the one that's walking around is similar to Christian, Yemi etc. and just made up by Jacob's enemy/Smokey.

[Zounder]

He didn't want Locke to die and he wants him to go back to the island alive, so Jacob's enemy can't reincarnate.

Exactly. I feel like, even though Ben and Widmore fight, they are both on Jacob's side. In fact, I feel like Ben may not even be aware of much of really what goes on between Jacob and his enemy, as evidenced by his lack of knowledge about the true nature of Jacob.

However, I still don't get how there can be two Lockes, one in the coffin and one walking around. I guess the one that's walking around is similar to Christian, Yemi etc. and just made up by Jacob's enemy/Smokey.

Pretty much. The Locke walking around isn't real, in the same sense that Yemi and Christian aren't real. What those three have in common is that their dead bodies are all somewhere on the island, which is presumably what Smokey/Jacob's Enemy needs to make these things work.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Zounder' post='68599' date='Sep 7 2009, 11:45 PM']Pretty much. The Locke walking around isn't real, in the same sense that Yemi and Christian aren't real. What those three have in common is that their dead bodies are all somewhere on the island, which is presumably what Smokey/Jacob's Enemy needs to make these things work.[/quote]



Yeah, die off the island and then being used on the island.



However, there are two things that kinda don't make sense to me:

- Smokey doesn't seem to be able to go to the beach.

- Yet it seems as if the person we see as Jacob's enemy (probably also just a copy of a dead person running around) and Flocke (Fake Locke lol) casually walks around there.



I really hope they explain this stuff and especially why the people have to die off the island so Jacob's enemy can use them.

Also, I think the staff wasn't too sure about this in the beginning. When Jack found his father's cuffin, it was empty. So, either he fell out (which is what they will be saying later on probably) or, at that time, they ment that Christian's actual body was walking around.

[Zounder]

Filming has started, which means we're getting into territory where I don't necessarily want any more info about next season, in case I run into something I don't wanna be spoiled on!



Might have to cut myself off from digging for info soon... how far do you guys usually go spoiler-wise?

[Ap2000]

I only started to know sites like lostpedia when Season 4 was around, so I haven't had many sources before that to spoil me much. (However, I did spoiler myself stuff in other shows/movies, sadly...)



As for Season 5, I think I haven't spoil me anything either, usually I just looked at the Lostpedia frontpage and sometimes checked the sites for episodes or season, to refresh my memories about older stuff and connections.



I want to know a few things about Season 6, stuff they said at Comic-Con for example, but not too much, so I won't go to sites like dark ufo or docarzt. (Though I don't visit them anyway, because to me they have a horribly cluttered layout)

[Ap2000]

Ben won an Emmy



And he totally deserves it.

[Zounder]

Congratulations, Michael Emerson! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /weeeh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' /> He happens to be my favorite actor on the show, so needless to say I agree that he completely deserves the award. He's a true genius in the way he portrays Ben's nuances, it adds a whole new dimension to the character. Every once in awhile, he'll deliver a line so perfectly Ben-like that you know he is brilliant.

[Ap2000]

Yup



btw, I got my enrollment invitation today for the Lost University.

I got 20 of the 23 answers correct.



However, it says the university won't "start" until 8th december, so I guess we're not going to see anymore ARG stuff from it until then.



EDIT:

The first "episode" of Lost University is out:

http://de-lostpedia.blogspot.com/2009/11/l...stpedia-Blog%29



It's kinda obsolete and useless, as it just retells what we already heard so many times before.



EDIT:

It's funny though.

[Ap2000]

Have you guys all forgotten about Lost/don't care anymore ? D=



Only 27 more faradays

[Tsuki]

I never cared much to begin with, I saw, like some of the first season but that's about it. But more power to people who do like it, woo.



(POST MORE, or something)

[Zounder]

Just waiting for the premiere at this point... not much else to talk about. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... popper.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wub:' />



http://www.thingsinoticed.com/



I actually bought the book and I am almost finished... It's been great so far. It basically outlines a bunch of theories and the evidence supporting each, while also looking back at previous episodes and analyzing the basis behind each theory. There's some really interesting observations that I never would have never noticed.

[Ap2000]

The first Season 6 Material is out (though it's only a very small part of the video) in a trailer:

http://de-lostpedia.blogspot.com/2010/01/e...terial-aus.html





And this is probably the best fan-made video about LOST ever:

http://de-lostpedia.blogspot.com/2010/01/w...-real-time.html

[Ap2000]

Just one more faraday !



Does anybody have a link to a live-stream for us poor european bastards ?

[eri]

ONE MORE DAY AHHHHHHHHH

[eri]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='74921' date='Feb 1 2010, 12:28 PM']Just one more faraday !



Does anybody have a link to a live-stream for us poor european bastards ?[/quote]



Try searching at Justin.tv --I used to go there when my tv was broken. You can always torrent it too.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='mEri' post='74937' date='Feb 2 2010, 02:07 AM'][quote name='Ap2000' post='74921' date='Feb 1 2010, 12:28 PM']Just one more faraday !



Does anybody have a link to a live-stream for us poor european bastards ?[/quote]



Try searching at Justin.tv --I used to go there when my tv was broken. You can always torrent it too.

[/quote]



Usually I download stuff from irfree because they rapidshit everything and have 720p versions, but I was thinking of staying up (2AM CET) and at least watch the beginning via stream.



I've watched a little bit of the new Season 6 trailer that had nearly only new material in it, but I was a pussy and could barely watch it and always looked away because I didn't want to get everything spoiled... I just saw some Smokey action and a little bit of dialogue. (most of it I can't even remember anymore lol)

It's here if you want to watch it:

http://de-lostpedia.blogspot.com/2010/02/a...bc-trailer.html



But I guess you should rather wait until you've seen the season premiere episodes and watch it afterwards.



btw, I already saw the first 2 minutes of s06e01 AND NOW I WANT TO SEE IT EVEN HARDER AND CAN'T WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW BUT STILL HAVE TO LEARN FOR A TEST TOMORROW AFTERNOON AND SOME STUPID CAR'S ALARM IS GOING OFF FOR HALF AN HOUR NOW AND IT'S NOT STOPING AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.



I think I haven't been this excited since the release of Ocarina of Time ffs.





EDIT:

Ugh... the car's alarm finally died.

[eri]

[quote name='Ap2000' post='74939' date='Feb 1 2010, 05:36 PM']btw, I already saw the first 2 minutes of s06e01 AND NOW I WANT TO SEE IT EVEN HARDER AND CAN'T WAIT UNTIL TOMORROW BUT STILL HAVE TO LEARN FOR A TEST TOMORROW AFTERNOON AND SOME STUPID CAR'S ALARM IS GOING OFF FOR HALF AN HOUR NOW AND IT'S NOT STOPING AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.



I think I haven't been this excited since the release of Ocarina of Time ffs.[/quote]



ME TOO!! I'm so excited. My classmate is throwing a LOST party tomorrow night haha.