Beckii Cruel

[Noa]

Apparently she has a single coming out with two other youtube dancers. Trike, was it you that told me? Because I can't remember their name.



I know it comes out in February but there haven't been any previews that I can find.

[ShinUkyo]

[quote name='ShinUkyo' post='73796' date='Jan 4 2010, 06:01 PM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='73435' date='Dec 30 2009, 09:38 PM']I already said this in the IRC chat, but I think that they probably actually told her to read it with a heavy accent to seem cuter. I remember hearing that Coconuts Musume was told to sing with an accent so they could seem more ~exotic~.[/quote]

This is a very good point. These type of girls are marketed, mostly, to cater to guys in Japan with a "white girl fetish." And it is done, of course, as politically incorrect as possible. The image is made more vivid when they pronounce things as poorly as they can, and even try to sound unintelligent on purpose. This also applies to white entertainers in fields of entertainment that are far-less sexual in nature. Mika Todd, from Coconuts Musume, for example. They asked her to really ham up the whitey act for the camera. Whereas in many of the more-candid interviews, both inside and outside Hellopro, she spoke with a perfectly fine Japanese accent. But basically anytime she was promoting their product, she sounded obnoxiously white and ignorant.



Same goes for a more recent example from that same agency, Robin Stukas from The Possible. They make it a point to have her act as white as possible, or at least what their idea of "white" is. And much like Mika Todd, this also applies to her singing lines. The one exception to this, of course, was in their single Ijiwaru Crazy Love. Her lines in that song were not forced to sound white on purpose, and her Japanese singing/accent was FLAWLESS on that track! It's too bad they won't give her more chances to actually utilize the full extent of her vocal talent, but I guess her biggest selling point is that being a whitey makes her stand out from the rest of the Hellopro and TNX girls. Hell, to be honest, that's a lot of what probably endears me to her personally.[/quote]

In part, I'm moving this onto the next page so it doesn't get ignored. Only posted it but moments ago, and it already got rolled over. I've seen plenty of you do this type of thing, so don't judge me! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hahaha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':love:' /> Anyhow, I also wanted to respond to myself in a way. In the case of Becky Cruel, it's different than the idol singer girls I mentioned before. In Becky's case, she doesn't actually speak Japanese at all. So it makes me wonder if her handlers or managers in Japan are kind of reluctant to teach her the language in hopes of keeping her in the stereotype. Like if she says something to them in Japanese, while pronouncing it wrong or using incorrect grammar, and then asks, "Is this right? Am I saying it correctly?" It makes me wonder, funny as it'd be, if they just nod to her and say, "PERFECT!" or something.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

[quote name='Molly' post='73809' date='Jan 4 2010, 08:42 PM']Apparently she has a single coming out with two other youtube dancers. Trike, was it you that told me? Because I can't remember their name.



I know it comes out in February but there haven't been any previews that I can find.[/quote]

Yeah. Their names are... Gemma Cruel and some other girl with Cruel for a stage name. One of them is ADORABLE in the promo picture, and the other one is pretty cute too, but they're really not all that amazing looking in their videos. Japanese makeup.



I don't think there are any previews out for it.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Bump!



Single PV preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na9sMIVvvTQ



They all look really... tired? They really need to smile a lot more. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> But apparently they were up recording past 3AM. I like the song a lot, though! It has a kind of cheap feel to it, but whatever. Sounds nice.

[koolmon]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74717' date='Jan 27 2010, 05:28 PM']Bump!



Single PV preview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na9sMIVvvTQ



They all look really... tired? They really need to smile a lot more. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /> But apparently they were up recording past 3AM. I like the song a lot, though! It has a kind of cheap feel to it, but whatever. Sounds nice.[/quote]

It looks like they were trying to pull a Leah Dizon with Beckii's make-up in this song. It sounds fun, but I can't get over the fact that these girls aren't even actually singers. And to be honest, I don't find any of these girls attractive. I mean, all the more power to them and success and all that jazz, but I just can't find myself ever liking these girls.



And apparently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfyHlmeOuY8 <-- That's the original.

[neshcom]

I don't know what's wrong with that head of hers, but I suppose she'll save whoever's backing her a ton of money on fisheye lenses.

[fpd]

Since Ukyo wants people to be active in this forum I guess I'll throw in that I used to dislike the old Becky a lot cause I found her incredibly annoying, and this girl is a lot worse. :/



Although strangely enough, looking back and seeing Becky in anything just makes me have a reaction of "Oh god that Becky chick, I hated her so much" in a happy way.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Full PV is a lot better! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYFKzRs94GE



So cute. The studio parts are pretty awkward, but I like the parts of them just doing shit in Japan a looot. The other 2 need a bit more charisma, but Beckii is adorable, man.



I do feel sorry for the other 2, though. Beckii is their Airi. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />

[koolmon]

I think the blue chick was the only one who looked like she was enjoying herself and watched too many H!P close-up videos. I still find none of these girls attractive and they all looked so bored. Not impressed.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74843' date='Jan 30 2010, 09:23 PM']Full PV is a lot better! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYFKzRs94GE



So cute. The studio parts are pretty awkward, but I like the parts of them just doing shit in Japan a looot. The other 2 need a bit more charisma, but Beckii is adorable, man.



I do feel sorry for the other 2, though. Beckii is their Airi. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />[/quote]



Indeed, it's watchable. For idol-standards it's quite ok.

Though HEAVILY processed, the song/singing itself is also far better.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

Yeah, their vocals are definitely processed to HELL. It sounds almost cheap actually. But hey, they have no training and they had to capitalize on Beckii's boom. :T



Koolmon stop hatin.

[koolmon]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74848' date='Jan 30 2010, 01:20 PM']Koolmon stop hatin.[/quote]

I ain't hatin. I'm speakin the truth my brotha.

Word.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Koolmon93' post='74851' date='Jan 30 2010, 11:21 PM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74848' date='Jan 30 2010, 01:20 PM']Koolmon stop hatin.[/quote]

I ain't hatin. I'm speakin the truth my brotha.

Word.

[/quote]



I actually completely agree with Koolmon.

They're not abysmal, but they're only mediocre/ok by aidoru-standards.

He is completely right, when he's saying that the girls don't seem too eager to please the otaku-fanbase. (who they're obviously trying appealing to)

However, this possibly might be because they're very inexperienced of course.

[aine]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74843' date='Jan 30 2010, 10:23 PM']Full PV is a lot better! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYFKzRs94GE[/quote]

It's passable I guess. But something still doesn't feel right about young white girls being forced into Japanese idol moulds. Maybe it's because they're white. Or maybe just because they're ugly.



And what, another version of Tsubasa wo kudasai to add to the collection?? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':doh:' /> The thread got lost, but a year or two ago I posted an archive of some 30 or 40 versions of the song. Most of them higher quality too. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />

[koolmon]

[quote name='aine' post='74853' date='Jan 30 2010, 03:19 PM']And what, another version of Tsubasa wo kudasai to add to the collection?? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':doh:' /> The thread got lost, but a year or two ago I posted an archive of some 30 or 40 versions of the song. Most of them higher quality too. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />[/quote]

Wow. I just realized this song is also Wings to Fly. I feel stupid. .____.

EDIT: Hey there's a K-ON version too! :3

[aine]

[quote name='Koolmon93' post='74855' date='Jan 31 2010, 12:37 AM']Wow. I just realized this song is also Wings to Fly. I feel stupid. .____.

EDIT: Hey there's a K-ON version too! :3[/quote]

I feel you. It wasn't until about half of the song when I realised "wait that sounds familiar".



K-ON version rocks. Made me feel like giving the series a try again.

[EmEl]

I don't know anything about make-up, but the faces seem like there is way too much make-up on them. Are the artists applying techniques that maybe work better on Asian complexions, or is this just the style these days?

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='aine' post='74853' date='Jan 30 2010, 06:19 PM'][quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74843' date='Jan 30 2010, 10:23 PM']Full PV is a lot better! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYFKzRs94GE[/quote]

It's passable I guess. But something still doesn't feel right about young white girls being forced into Japanese idol moulds. Maybe it's because they're white. Or maybe just because they're ugly.



And what, another version of Tsubasa wo kudasai to add to the collection?? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':doh:' /> The thread got lost, but a year or two ago I posted an archive of some 30 or 40 versions of the song. Most of them higher quality too. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />

[/quote]



I don't really get the ugly thing. None of these girls are drop dead gorgeous or anything, but I can't see ugly. I think Beckii herself is the only one that looks really forced into the idol mould. The pigtails and enormous earmuffs just don't work on her, it makes her look ridiculous and kiddy rather than cute. But the outfits the other girls have on aren't bad. I think they all look confused and unsure, which is pretty much what all new young idols look like. I think it just shows even more for them because this PV was probably a rush job. They don't have any mentor idols to tell them what to do and the director probably didn't bother to stop them and say "Hey, smile more!" or "Hey, have more energy during the dance!"



But like aine says, yeeet another version of Tsubasa wo Kudasai. I guess the idea is to make these girls identifiable to the Japanese public, but they could have gone with some famous anime song (i.e. originated in an anime, not recently used in K-ON) or something xD

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Koolmon93' post='74855' date='Jan 31 2010, 01:37 AM'][quote name='aine' post='74853' date='Jan 30 2010, 03:19 PM']And what, another version of Tsubasa wo kudasai to add to the collection?? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> The thread got lost, but a year or two ago I posted an archive of some 30 or 40 versions of the song. Most of them higher quality too. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />[/quote]

Wow. I just realized this song is also Wings to Fly. I feel stupid. .____.

EDIT: Hey there's a K-ON version too!

[/quote]



but there's a kon version of every shit that came out lately

[Haru]

[quote name='Special Needs Tricycle' post='74843' date='Jan 30 2010, 03:23 PM']I do feel sorry for the other 2, though. Beckii is their Airi. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />[/quote]



I like Airi better. :[



I thought it was originally a K-ON! song?

Ah well.



I do not like this girl. She can't sing. :[

But she has cute clothes.

[Farrah]

[quote name='TnB' post='74865' date='Jan 30 2010, 10:36 PM']I don't really get the ugly thing. None of these girls are drop dead gorgeous or anything, but I can't see ugly. I think Beckii herself is the only one that looks really forced into the idol mould. The pigtails and enormous earmuffs just don't work on her, it makes her look ridiculous and kiddy rather than cute.[/quote]

I agree with this, but I think that style looks just as ridiculous on Japanese women, haha.

I think they're all fairly above average in looks and I think the main reason people want to say they're ugly is because they're white (not you in particular, aine, I've just seen A LOT of people calling them ugly, hideous, etc) I was recently watching a video of some professional parapara dancing off of some DVD, and a few of the dancers were white (and quite attractive, they looked like models, which they may have been, because even a spastic llama could do parapara) and there was A TON of these comments about how "Why did they use white girls? White people are so ugly!" and things like that.



I've actually talked to one of the girls, Gemma, on some fandubbing forums a few years ago, and all I'll say is that these are just... normal girls, and that the hate I see for them seems really undeserved. You can say they can't sing or they can't dance 'till kingdom come, but if you had THAT high of standards for vocals and dancing, I don't think you'd be on a Morning Musume forum.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Ang' post='74915' date='Feb 1 2010, 06:48 PM'][quote name='TnB' post='74865' date='Jan 30 2010, 10:36 PM']I don't really get the ugly thing. None of these girls are drop dead gorgeous or anything, but I can't see ugly. I think Beckii herself is the only one that looks really forced into the idol mould. The pigtails and enormous earmuffs just don't work on her, it makes her look ridiculous and kiddy rather than cute.[/quote]

I agree with this, but I think that style looks just as ridiculous on Japanese women, haha.

I think they're all fairly above average in looks and I think the main reason people want to say they're ugly is because they're white (not you in particular, aine, I've just seen A LOT of people calling them ugly, hideous, etc) I was recently watching a video of some professional parapara dancing off of some DVD, and a few of the dancers were white (and quite attractive, they looked like models, which they may have been, because even a spastic llama could do parapara) and there was A TON of these comments about how "Why did they use white girls? White people are so ugly!" and things like that.



I've actually talked to one of the girls, Gemma, on some fandubbing forums a few years ago, and all I'll say is that these are just... normal girls, and that the hate I see for them seems really undeserved. You can say they can't sing or they can't dance 'till kingdom come, but if you had THAT high of standards for vocals and dancing, I don't think you'd be on a Morning Musume forum.

[/quote]



Although I get your point... you CAN be on MM boards even if you're not into the music at all, because MM has (more like "had") an entertainment part to them via H!M, DVDs, show appearances etc.

[Farrah]

Oh, I agree, but it's kind of hypocritical to have like, idk, an Aika icon for example and be all "THEY CAN'T SING, WHY DO THEY HAVE THIS JOB." because singing ability, much as I think it should be? Isn't even in the job description for idols. If you're an idol and can even SLIGHTLY hold a tune, people will act like you're this mindblowing singer because, next to Sayumi, you are. XD

[aine]

[quote name='Ang' post='74915' date='Feb 1 2010, 06:48 PM']I think they're all fairly above average in looks and I think the main reason people want to say they're ugly is because they're white (not you in particular, aine, I've just seen A LOT of people calling them ugly, hideous, etc)[/quote]

That's ok, I'm guilty of throwing the "ugly" word around rather liberately. But truth is those girls are not exactly my ideal of the "first glance" prettiness. Now put them in the outfits and situations in which they are generally out of place, and the result is unsettling.



[quote name='Ang' post='74915' date='Feb 1 2010, 06:48 PM']I've actually talked to one of the girls, Gemma, on some fandubbing forums a few years ago, and all I'll say is that these are just... normal girls, and that the hate I see for them seems really undeserved. You can say they can't sing or they can't dance 'till kingdom come, but if you had THAT high of standards for vocals and dancing, I don't think you'd be on a Morning Musume forum.[/quote]

I completely believe you they are normal girls off the camera. But we do observe them through the "idol" looking glass and that pushes the standards up. Even if the image they are trying to sell is a "normal girl" or "girl next door", that's still very idealised and smoothened out. That's a idol video selling selling an image of a "White princess" to the lonely Japansese, and not a Dogma 95 manifesto movie.



I forgot what I was trying to say and ended up saying obvious things. Anyway, in normal situation I wouldn't call any of them ugly. Indifferent at worst. But when they are being sold as "Japanese idols from Japan" then something just doesn't click. Hence the word "ugly" which you should take with a grain of salt.

[eri]

Bumping this because Jezebel just posted on this:

http://jezebel.com/5469500/i-was-getting-s...was-just-mental



Jezebel has a pretty high level of discussion usually so the comments here might be of interest. I'm also responding very late to Ukyo but I agree there is a highly uncomfortable degree of race fetishization in Japan and B.Cruel is like a 10 car crash collision of all sorts of fetishes.

Seriously, she only this recognition because she wears VERY short skirts and has a childish figure.

She may be "having fun" but the truth is that this is EXTREMELY sexual for her fans.



She is 14! The men are attracted to her BECAUSE she is 14 and prepubescent.



She can't speak Japanese and is in no way prepared for this.

this is not a game of "blame the victim" or throwing cold water on a young girl's harmless expressions of femininity. There are very seriously creepy, rape-y undertones to this from the perspective of hundreds of thousands of unknown men on the internet who are watching. She is in fact not in control of her image and how it's being used/interpreted because it's been flung to the far corners of the public domain.

if she knows that she will be fetishized for this, then i'm not that bothered by it. its basically the same thing as other 14 year old girls posting "sexy" facebook pictures and exploring sexuality. if she is 14 and can grasp this sort of complex fetishization, then more power to her i suppose.



however, if she doesn't understand the sexual implications of this, then i am VERY bothered by the fact that she is going to be basically pimped out to japan as sex symbol. doing such a thing to a 14 year old girl without her knowledge or understanding of the situation seems exploitative to me

I wouldn't call it porn either, but I do think it's exploitation. They are not taking her as a serious artist (because honestly she has no talent, even by the low Japanese industry standards)



She's just basically there for creepy old men to gawk at. She can't sing, and just flails about on the screen while wearing earmuffs and usually a very short skirt. Reply

I just bolded some of the interesting positions people take on this.

[eri]

[quote name='TnB' post='71082' date='Nov 2 2009, 08:27 PM']The point of my entire post was to say that it's not a big deal. ...The fact that you again return to racism "in the Japanese media" makes it seems like you think this is some unique and creepy Japanese phenomenon when it's no different that what goes on in any other country.



Fetishism is not necessarily a bad thing, but the way you used it in your post tied in with ideas like racism and creepy otaku makes it look like you're honestly trying to tell us all that the 5 minutes of fame (and much less for most of these girls) dancing youtubers get is all propelled by terrible dark thoughts of the Japanese.



Of course there's racism in Japan (not at all limited to the media)...



Edit: And since you edited your post, yes, it does come off snotty. And no, I don't want to see or participate in another debate about how racist and terrible Japan is, that was kind of part of my point. It's overkill, and while I certainly am not denying that racism or race fetishism exits (though, yet again, I don't feel these concepts are in any way limited to Japan), my point was that issues like this are so minor they're not worth entangling in some big racism debate.[/quote]



I never saw this until now. TnB, do you genuinely think that seeing people as racial sexual caricatures is not a big deal, partially because it is so common? Are you a woman? Have you ever been a victim of this? These are not rhetorical questions - I am genuinely curious and actually seriously disturbed by your position. A fetish, by every single scholarly definition, inherently involves a power disparity and a complete reduction of the victim to an object identified only by their sexually-infused characteristic -- like, a person's race. And race itself is not a biological reality but is a socially constructed fiction generated out of two centuries of war haha.



Also, I'm just as critical of, say, white guys fetishizing Asian girls in the US as I am of stuff like this. This is not a move to demonize or freak out about Japan. It is a thoughtful discussion that acknowledges currents behind things like Becky Cruel's inane stardom. Is there even a debate to entangle in?



Sorry if I come off as snotty - I have recently become aware that it is an effect of the way I write (among other things). But at the same time, you know what? I'm damn smart and damn educated and have experienced a hell lot of shitty things in the US growing up as an Asian girl. I'm not afraid of thinking or questioning serious issues as they inform my life, including my little world of Jpop. Sorry if that makes some people uncomfortable but one of the benefits of the internet is...you can always ignore the posts, plug your ears and scream "la la la" if you so choose. If you live in such a world then you are lucky - and there is no sarcasm in this post at all.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':popper:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[madlandyman]

interesting article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/is...man/8506664.stm

her father is a police office and makes sure she is aware of all dangers apparently

[thamychan]

I'm sorry I don't really know how to express my thoughts and even I'm bothering you here but, first to mEri, I don't bother reading your opinions and I think that that is what a forum is for. We meet and clash opinions until we get somewhere, too many opinions alike is just like a monologue. Even so, i agree with you. I'm not an Asian girl and I'm far from different in race from my community (maybe it is more like everyone comes from a different place) so I know very little about racism.



Anyway, back to Beckii, I didn't actually care for her in the beginning... Just like Magibon I thought it was another trend in Japan, and it probably still is but the questions you have raised here are too interesting for me to keep my mouth shut.



In my opinion, fetishism in Japan is a serious probably, specially for girls. I know we have to respect each culture and I'm usually pro the 'let them be' side. But, yeah, the idol thing and how they want girls to be dolls and at the same time a normal girl creates things that are far from normal like the ganguro etc. Now, that is their culture and those girls grew up inside them, their perception of right and wrong is really different from mine. What I don't really understand is Beckii's father letting her be exposed like that... He can't be as innocent as to think those singles will be bought by children, right?



I had other thoughts but it is really late here and I errrr forgot those. Sorry! XD My main point was to say I loved reading mEri's post, actually. And everyone's too! That is a topic of my interest, as in I really like those idols but sometimes it freaks me out.

[Shoujo Q]

This could have gone in the MM Chat section but this seems more fitting.





Sayumi and Beckii together on YouTube.