Let's talk about wotas.

[Special Needs Tricycle]

OKAY THIS IS TRIKE'S ATTEMPT AT MAKING A Serious Discussion Post. DON'T LAUGH



So wotas are the scum of the earth right? Nasty, middle-aged pedophiles who are only into H!P for the little girls. Ruining concerts with their chants and jumping and stupid shit.



But what exactly makes someone a wota? Gender? Age? Nationality? Money spent? How many photobooks one has creamed on?



And are we all that different from Japanese fans (wota)? If you watch the AX special/DVD, there are a lot of... wota-ish type fans in there. The shots of the crowd are basically the same you'd see of a concert in Japan, except a whole lot whiter and awkward.



And of course, there are things like this:











And then this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBspZcUNnrU



So are these people "wota" or just plain idiots? I've always held a sense of pride in not being put in the same group as the middle-aged men at the concerts, but recently I've started to think that the line between the two isn't that big. I've never heard of a Japanese fan getting an H!P tattoo.



I've actually talked to a few Japanese fans, and though a bit more... invested into their idols, they're not that different from the people posting here or on any other English H!P forum.



Also, another thing I've noticed is that a lot of them just support one group or one member, where as most of us follow H!P as a whole. So Berryz fans will only really go to Berryz concerts/events, or people will only invest in one member, and just follow them in whatever they do, where as most of us know pretty much everything about H!P as a whole. There are full-out H!P wotas though.



They also call foreign fans wotas, too. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



So uh, discuss or something. I have no idea how this is going to turn out, but it's something I've always wanted to talk about beyond the random demonizing of "wotas" I see around the BBS.

[al kusanagi]

There's a huge difference between a "fan" and a "wota." Those fuckers are the scum of the earth. They ruined live HP events for me, personally, as well as driving out the "normal" fans, female fans, and kid fans. Their antics have completely tarnished MM fanhood, to the point where even mentioning you like them (as a male) gets you automatically associated with them. I went to HP concerts to enjoy myself, relax and enjoy the music and seeing the girls that I've become such a huge fan of do what they do best. I'd ignore the wota crowd chants and gestures and just sing along. But then, as they became the vast majority, those things couldn't be ignored anymore. The chants drowned out the music, the fuckers jumping up and down like cracked up dipshits blocked pretty much any view of the stage, and more often than not the asshole jumping up and down would crash into me on the way down or land on my foot and ankle. It got to the point where I'd bodycheck (as in ice hockey sense) the shit out any jackass that landed on me and use my "I'm a gaijin and I'm bigger than you" edge to intimidate them into acting like a normal human. But then it got so I spent most of the time stressing over the wotas during the show and no time enjoying the concerts. It became too damn stressful and the complete opposite of why I was there in the first place. Finally, I said "Fuck it," and just got the DVDs, just going to a few major shows like member graduations. Thankfully MKB shows and fans are different for the most part, and moshing is pretty much expected at their gigs, so I was able to enjoy their shows all the way up to the end.



So, yeah, fuck them.

[Ap2000]

A wota is somebody obsessed with something. It's not really an age/gender thing.

In the west it usually is used for the a clichée type of an idol fan.



I'm completely fine with whatever some dude (or girl) is doing to himself or is obsessed with, as long as they don't screw with the freedom and rights of others. (e.g. through extreme stalking)

And from what I heard H!P hardcore fans are pretty much protective when it comes to their idols. Iirc there has been this case where some guy was stalking somebody from H!P (I think it was one of the kids like Maimi) and then the other wotas found out who it was and even blocked him out of the concerts or something like that. They don't want others to frighten their idols in such a way, they respect the distance does exist between them and their idols. As much as they wish to be "together" with their idols, they know they can't have them.

Well, that is at least how I see it. It seems like Al sees this very different.



I'm going to write more as soon as I get back from university.

[cromartiedropout]

^This. I'm a girl, I'm a teenager, and I'm a wota. I haven't spent a lot of money on merch because...I don't actually have any money, but I would love to have a full physical C-ute discography and Nakky photocards covering my walls. I learn wotagei and do them while I watch concert recordings. And I throw birthday parties for my favorite Idol.



As for fapping over photobooks...well, my love for Nakky is almost maternal in it's chastity, and I think that goes for a lot of other wota too. Yeah of course there are the wota that are hardcore sexually invested in their Idols, but I definitely don't think it's a prerequisite.



Your average wota is a lot less creepy than you might think.

[tsukinobyouin]

It's one thing for a fandom to have a few "moves" they do during certain songs, or things that are chanted at certain times. Lots of groups that have stuff like that, and most of the time it's the group itself that initiates/comes up with the moves rather than the fans. Some of H!P's used to be not too bad - L.O.V.E Lovely Pucchi Moni was cute. But listening to that same chant yelled at top volume during Sakura Mankai in the Koharu grad was really irritating. It totally ruins the soft ballad atmosphere. I imagine the crazy wota moves would be really distracting and obstructive, as Al says, if you were sitting in the closer seats. The only time I went to an H!P concert (Rainbow 7 tour), I was in the stadium and most people around me were calmer. I do remember yelling out Risa's name once to cheer her on as she came by, and some male fan immediately felt the need to out-yell me. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />



I imagine if tattoos were more culturally acceptable in Japan, Japanese wotas would be just as apt to get them. I kind of find massive tattooing like that to be ridiculous in general, because 9 times out of 10 the tattoo will look like shit when you get older or you'll change your mind about the image you got. Even if you still think Reina is the shit 30 years from now, you might not be as inclined to show everyone. What really weirded me out about that guy was actually his other tattoo. Is that...metal sticking out? Is there a bracelet in there? Or is it just a really well done 3D illusion? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hatthe.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[al kusanagi]

[quote name='cromartiedropout' post='76479' date='Mar 1 2010, 08:15 AM']^This. I'm a girl, I'm a teenager, and I'm a wota. I haven't spent a lot of money on merch because...I don't actually have any money, but I would love to have a full physical C-ute discography and Nakky photocards covering my walls. I learn wotagei and do them while I watch concert recordings. And I throw birthday parties for my favorite Idol.



As for fapping over photobooks...well, my love for Nakky is almost maternal in it's chastity, and I think that goes for a lot of other wota too. Yeah of course there are the wota that are hardcore sexually invested in their Idols, but I definitely don't think it's a prerequisite.



Your average wota is a lot less creepy than you might think.[/quote]



You are a fan, not a "wota" (or more specifically "mo-wota"). It's that whole Western thing where calling yourself an otaku is cool, but in Japan it's social suicide. Other than the brief fad after Densha Otoko, it has never been and never will be cool to be an otaku in Japan, especially with hikkikomori pretty much being directly linked to them as of late.



Do you enjoy the music, have a favorite member, have their DVDs and such? You're a fan.



Do you have clothing covered in your favorite members name, build shrines to them on their birthdays, gather outside of concert halls with your member faction while looking like total freaks, compete with the other factions during concerts to see who can be the loudest and most annoying? Then you're a "mo-wota." And those are the "normal" things they do. How about the sick and bizarre things some of them do? How about buying 20 copies of a single to get several invites to a handshake event, then jerking off minutes before the event and using that hand to shake their favorite member's? How about buying multiple copies of photobooks, 1 to keep, 1 to look at and 1 to jerk off on? Yeah, enjoy being lumped in with them.



Even when MM was damn near all I had in my life during my couple of years in rural Japan where I ate, slept and breathed MM, I still knew enough to know there was something wrong with "those fans." This was when us "norms" could go to an MM concert and still be the majority, and the "wota" were just eccentric weirdos gathered in groups outside. But then, over a few years, the tide completely shifted (I'd say around the time Nacchi left was when the major shift started, then when Tsuji and Kago left it was in full swing, those being the most popular members with the general public), and then these dark days began.



Hell, I don't even know what they're accomplishing by it. Dressing like a clown and acting like an idiot aren't impressing anyone, and while you draw attention, it's the wrong kind. And, yes, while I did have being a devastatingly charming gaijin with piercing blue eyes to my advantage, smiling, being respectful of the artists and the music, and just singing along with them went a whole hell of a lot further for being appreciated and recognized by members as a fan than any wota antics. There are just much better ways of going about things than the path they've chosen.



So, in conclusion, 70-85% of them need to rethink their fandom, while the remaining ones need to die.



disclaimer: Yes, I would kill for Sayumi, but only if she asked personally, and it has nothing to do with her being an idol or in MM and more to do with early recognition that she is, in fact, the Destroyer of Worlds.

[Gerald]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='76484' date='Mar 1 2010, 05:24 PM']How about buying 20 copies of a single to get several invites to a handshake event, then jerking off minutes before the event and using that hand to shake their favorite member's?[/quote]

Thank you, I was just about to eat, that may just be one of the most repulsive things I've heard as regards behaviour from "fans" <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/sick.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />.

[showraniy]

Being new to H!P and the idol world in general, I didn't want to post in threads like this since I figure I need a little time to sit back and consider my opinion on the matter, but here's my standpoint at this point as juvenile at it is: wota are not a good thing, no matter how you word it and how you categorize the different types. It's probably extremely common in idol groups, and with me being a newbie to the scene it'll come off presumptuous to say this, but being that obsessed with any other human being is not good. It's even worse when that other human being or beings happens to be someone who you've never met in your entire life and will never have any connection with other than as a fan.



This kind of obsessiveness is indicative of other, deeper problems to me, but I won't get into those either since I can't stake any claim to being a psychologist either.



That's my take on the whole situation.

[Soorihyun]

Wow, getting tattoos of the H!P girls or their names tattooed on as well is a bit............ extreme. I mean tattoo is something which is permanent and poisonous, and you're telling me that they are going to get a tattoo of the H!P girls. Really...? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/huh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' /> <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> As in that's stupid and what happens after you stop liking them or you choose to move on with your life, I mean I know you can them removed but still.... really? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /pouty.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

[thamychan]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='76484' date='Mar 1 2010, 02:24 PM']How about buying multiple copies of photobooks, 1 to keep, 1 to look at and 1 to jerk off on? Yeah, enjoy being lumped in with them.[/quote]

That reminds me of when I first noticed the difference between a fan and a wota... I was looking for wota stuff to show a friend how some could be funny sometimes when I found this video of what looked like a typical wota in the worst meaning. Well, the video could be a fake but it didn't seem to me at the time and even now remembering it grosses me out. I can't even imagine what those girls think when they see their "wotas"... I know there is some audio of Rika commenting on that but I'm sure they think even worse. Or not? Maybe they are just happy to have an income... But I digress.



Wotas are even more disgusting than anime/manga otakus, in my opinion. And Al Kusanagi did hit a spot for me when he said that it was okay when they were just a little part of the public for Momusu but now they are the rule so when one says he likes the group, people should even start to wonder if he isn't one of those or at least close to them. Not that all wotas are as gross as that video made me think, I know. But it got me traumatized, and that is the truth.

[Madara]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' post='76484' date='Mar 2 2010, 02:24 AM']How about the sick and bizarre things some of them do? How about buying 20 copies of a single to get several invites to a handshake event, then jerking off minutes before the event and using that hand to shake their favorite member's?[/quote]



(I'm quite sure I did not want to know about this.)



I would like to call this meeting to order. [Sound of gavel banging]

If it be agreed by all, the first order of business is to...cancel those Goddamned handshake events!

[Farrah]

To me, you become a wota when you become obsessive and emotionally involved with these people you do not even know. People may call me cold for that emotionally involved bit, but for me, feeling overly emotionally connected to a complete stranger is not anymore healthy than being obsessed with someone. I don't mean shedding a tear or two while watching a graduation (though, I've never done so... again, cold, I guess) but the fans who feel like these girls owe something to them, the fans who break up their CDs and shred up photobooks because of a scandal, because they feel like the girl has failed them in some way, or cheated on them, or violated their trust. It is scary, obsessive behavior, in my opinion, as someone who has never become remotely emotionally involved with a idol or musician of any kind, and maybe I am just cold hearted and evil, LOL, but I really can't see that kind of behavior as normal. It is really scary when someone allows their entire life to be dominated by someone who doesn't even know they exist.

[Gerald]

This instructional video may help you decide if you are or if you want to become a wota: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9GCHZd8GAw.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Ang' post='76510' date='Mar 1 2010, 05:20 PM']To me, you become a wota when you become obsessive and emotionally involved with these people you do not even know. People may call me cold for that emotionally involved bit, but for me, feeling overly emotionally connected to a complete stranger is not anymore healthy than being obsessed with someone. I don't mean shedding a tear or two while watching a graduation (though, I've never done so... again, cold, I guess) but the fans who feel like these girls owe something to them, the fans who break up their CDs and shred up photobooks because of a scandal, because they feel like the girl has failed them in some way, or cheated on them, or violated their trust. It is scary, obsessive behavior, in my opinion, as someone who has never become remotely emotionally involved with a idol or musician of any kind, and maybe I am just cold hearted and evil, LOL, but I really can't see that kind of behavior as normal. It is really scary when someone allows their entire life to be dominated by someone who doesn't even know they exist.[/quote]

So, is this different from how millions upon millions of people in the US get obsessed with celebrities and read tabloids about their personal lives as if they know the celebrity and should care about what they do with their personal life? And is this different from 14 year old girls who are obsessed with the Jonas Brothers or something and buy everything that exists with their face on it and scream and cry at concerts? The line is often hard to draw, besides that the wotas for most idols have an often more sexual nature to their obsession, but as far as getting obsessed with things that you really have no honest connection to, it happens all the time, everywhere.

[Farrah]

I don't think they're any different, LOL I think both are unhealthy. I'm not saying it's a purely Japanese thing - I think fanaticism is unhealthy in general.

[AEUGNewtype]

I agree and my post wasn't really aimed directly at you, it just seems common in our circles who follow idols and Jpop that these kinds of behaviors are pinned to wotas as if they're the only people on Earth that do things of this caliber, but it really does happen all the time, everywhere.

[Farrah]

For sure. Celebrity worship is an international past time. I've always found it really disturbing how far it can go. Haven't people killed themselves after celebrities did and such?

[neshcom]

I think the line between wota and super-fan is kind of hard to find, but we can agree that the cumming on photobooks and handshake thing is definitely past that line, right? I mean, yeah, people can definitely be fanatical to the point of idolizing, and I'm sure there's an in-between, but you can't say a 14 year old who obsesses over the Jonas Brothers and a middle-aged wota are possibly on the same side of the fence. I'd say it's different because of the sexual nature on the part of the fan/wota. Not to say that there's anything wrong with personally sexualizing a celebrity who is of-age, but the reactions of wotas to events (like the ripping/shredding of objects when there are scandals like Ang said) is really something that sets them apart.



tl;dr: Of course people connect themselves to things they aren't connected to, but it's about reactions and context that sets wota apart from your everyday celebrity fan.

[JPope]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' post='76517' date='Mar 1 2010, 07:44 PM'][quote name='Ang' post='76510' date='Mar 1 2010, 05:20 PM']To me, you become a wota when you become obsessive and emotionally involved with these people you do not even know. People may call me cold for that emotionally involved bit, but for me, feeling overly emotionally connected to a complete stranger is not anymore healthy than being obsessed with someone. I don't mean shedding a tear or two while watching a graduation (though, I've never done so... again, cold, I guess) but the fans who feel like these girls owe something to them, the fans who break up their CDs and shred up photobooks because of a scandal, because they feel like the girl has failed them in some way, or cheated on them, or violated their trust. It is scary, obsessive behavior, in my opinion, as someone who has never become remotely emotionally involved with a idol or musician of any kind, and maybe I am just cold hearted and evil, LOL, but I really can't see that kind of behavior as normal. It is really scary when someone allows their entire life to be dominated by someone who doesn't even know they exist.[/quote]

So, is this different from how millions upon millions of people in the US get obsessed with celebrities and read tabloids about their personal lives as if they know the celebrity and should care about what they do with their personal life? And is this different from 14 year old girls who are obsessed with the Jonas Brothers or something and buy everything that exists with their face on it and scream and cry at concerts? The line is often hard to draw, besides that the wotas for most idols have an often more sexual nature to their obsession, but as far as getting obsessed with things that you really have no honest connection to, it happens all the time, everywhere.

[/quote]



It's completely different. It's grown men obsessing over teenaged girls, not teenaged girls obsessing over teenaged boys or young men. If you can't see the difference between the two then you're just not trying hard enough. Your attempt at moral equivalence between Jonas Brothers fans and Motas is shocking, really.

[Farrah]

[quote name='JPope' post='76535' date='Mar 1 2010, 11:58 PM']It's completely different. It's grown men obsessing over teenaged girls, not teenaged girls obsessing over teenaged boys or young men. If you can't see the difference between the two then you're just not trying hard enough.[/quote]



There is that aspect of it as well, forgot to mention. Not gonna lie, the younger female wota don't creep me out quite as much as the older male wota, because there isn't that icky loli undertone to it.

[Milly]

I was thinking about what caused the increase in wotas and I think the Hello Project Kids are partially to blame (management I mean, not the kids themselves). Tsuji and Kago were very young too, but Morning Musume had a decent age balance and Minimoni made music obviously aimed at kids.The H!P Kids were cute when they made appearances in movies (Hotaru no Hoshi, Koinu Dan Monogatari) or the cameos in the Boogie Train PV. But when Berryz Koubou debuted with an average member age of 11 with a song clearly not aimed at kids I think the general public got the image of H!P only pandering to middle-aged guys with a lolita fetish. Things only got worse when C-ute had a 10 year old doing hip thrust while singing "Love me Love me Love me". Seems to me management is directly to blame for the increase in wotas.



I'm glad they recently seem to be making an effort to appeal to a larger public with the anime tie-ins and tv-appearances, but it will be extremely difficult to get rid of the wotas and the bad image associated with them.

[staplermofo]

Before I go blow my brains out in shame, guilt, and desolation because the one place I thought I would be accepted for being a fan (while not being creeped out by the other fans) suddenly turned on older guys, anyone want to propose a "you're just too old to be a fan" age?

[stoveroad]

[quote name='Ang' post='76525' date='Mar 1 2010, 08:56 PM']For sure. Celebrity worship is an international past time. I've always found it really disturbing how far it can go. Haven't people killed themselves after celebrities did and such?[/quote]



I don't know about people following their favorite celebrity into death, but whenever obsessed fans come to mind I think of the crazed and self-destructive Bjork stalker Ricardo Lopez. Possibly the most extreme a fan can go for the sake of the object of their worship.



As far as wotas go, I rather not know much more about them. They're pudgy male fans with latent pedophile tendencies who feel entitled and congratulate themselves and other slope brow clods for spending hundred of dollars on merchandise. Pretty much like any comic book convention in the U.S. only with teenaged Japanese girls. It's sad that Morning Musume went from having some legitimacy as singers to a brand name idol group that UFA begrudgingly markets to the obsessive collectors with disposable income. Or maybe not so begrudgingly.

[Madara]

[quote name='staplermofo' post='76541' date='Mar 2 2010, 10:17 PM']Before I go blow my brains out in shame, guilt, and desolation because the one place I thought I would be accepted for being a fan (while not being creeped out by the other fans) suddenly turned on older guys, anyone want to propose a "you're just too old to be a fan" age?[/quote]



Ummm...can we please not go there? At least wait till I reach the age when I finally decide I'm too old to be a fan. Let's make this voluntary retirement, not mandatory, shall we?

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='staplermofo' post='76541' date='Mar 2 2010, 08:17 AM']Before I go blow my brains out in shame, guilt, and desolation because the one place I thought I would be accepted for being a fan (while not being creeped out by the other fans) suddenly turned on older guys, anyone want to propose a "you're just too old to be a fan" age?[/quote]



Tone down the drama a little. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' /> There's no "you're just too old to be a fan" age, it's all about what KIND of fan you are.



I present to the BBS a chart, for anyone worried they might be on the wrong side of the fandom craziness scale:







Fan of any age and gender who does wotagei, throws H!P birthday parties, dances to H!P songs on youtube, etc. = Some people at this board are probably laughing at you, but you're still pretty sane. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' />



late 20's~30+ guy who likes to jam to Berryz in his car, thinks Reina is "cute (like a puppy)," and has a good time laughing at general H!P antics = Unusual, but not unheard of or horrendously creepy. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /pouty.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' />



late 20's~30+ guy who will only jam to H!P in his car and nothing else, thinks Reina is "hawt <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ebleed.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' />", has an extensive collection of H!P photos/posters/etc plastered all over his walls, and tattoos Reina to his arm = Weirdo. Get a life, and fast! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... weirdo.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weirdo:' />



late 20's~30+ year old guy (or really, any fan of any age and gender) who is singularly devoted to the music of MM, thinks Reina is "a sex goddess <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... jerkit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':jerkit:' />", and buys multiple copies of everything with Reina's face on it to have a pristine copy and a jerk off copy = Horrendously creepy and beyond saving. If you are at this board, gtfo. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... gunner.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':gunner:' />

[JPope]

[quote name='staplermofo' post='76541' date='Mar 2 2010, 08:17 AM']Before I go blow my brains out in shame, guilt, and desolation because the one place I thought I would be accepted for being a fan (while not being creeped out by the other fans) suddenly turned on older guys, anyone want to propose a "you're just too old to be a fan" age?[/quote]



Not sure where you got the idea that older male fans in general are being singled out here. It's a very specific subset of overly obsessed adult males we are talking about. I'm probably the oldest guy here, or close to it, and Al ain't no spring chicken, either. I would gladly propose the age of, say, 15 or 16 as the "you're just too old to see teenaged female idols as sexual fantasies" age, though. If you just really dig the music and have a couple of favorite members, no one is giving you a side glance.

[Gerald]

[quote name='TnB' post='76546' date='Mar 2 2010, 02:19 PM']late 20's~30+ guy who likes to jam to Berryz in his car, thinks Reina is "cute (like a puppy)," and has a good time laughing at general H!P antics = Unusual, but not unheard of or horrendously creepy. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /pouty.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' />[/quote]

Phew <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' />. Oh and sustitute MM or MKB for Berryz.



[quote name='JPope' post='76549' date='Mar 2 2010, 02:53 PM']I'm probably the oldest guy here, or close to it, and Al ain't no spring chicken, either.[/quote]

Hmmm, if there's a prize I would like to nominate myself.

[Infinite Loop]

I'd say that attitudes are better indicators than actions, as far as what people find problematic. It's a matter of the thought processes in regards to how you view your relation to the girls: not just sexuality, but also ownership, expectation, and intimacy. H!P is escapism for the vast majority no matter how you slice it, but that alone isn't problematic, unless you are similarly indicting nearly all entertainment.



This is why TnB's chart bristles with me a bit, especially the division between the first two levels of "craziness". First off, how is it an indicator of creepiness for any straight male of any age to find Reina "cute like a puppy"? I don't understand that at all. What people find attractive, especially in a non-overtly-sexual way, is supposed to be repressed away as they become older? In terms of action, maybe, but in thought? Yeesh.



As examples of what I mean about actions not being the only indicators: Only the very most extreme actions (purchasing a photobook for target practice, destroying merch after a scandal) unquestionably betray those high levels of intimacy and sexualization, or ownership and expectation. Having an H!P birthday party because it's an excuse to eat cake, listen to H!P and/or be with friends, and having an H!P birthday party because it makes you feel a more intimate relationship with that girl, might be different places on the hypothetical scale. I don't see anything remotely objectionable about someone listening to Berryz because they like the music, but it's troubling if they're listening because it reminds them of their fated soulmate Momoko and/or her hot loli body. Wotagei as physical release is great, wotagei as a means to have favourite member notice you/like you, not so much.



And having said that, I don't even really care what anyone does as long as they keep it to themselves, i.e. far away from the girls themselves, and don't project their sexual hangups onto other, more reachable young girls. That's the line I would personally deem inexcusable for someone to cross. Other than that, it's your life, do as you see fit, I'm not judging.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='TnB' post='76546' date='Mar 2 2010, 04:19 PM'][quote name='staplermofo' post='76541' date='Mar 2 2010, 08:17 AM']Before I go blow my brains out in shame, guilt, and desolation because the one place I thought I would be accepted for being a fan (while not being creeped out by the other fans) suddenly turned on older guys, anyone want to propose a "you're just too old to be a fan" age?[/quote]



Tone down the drama a little. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' /> There's no "you're just too old to be a fan" age, it's all about what KIND of fan you are.



I present to the BBS a chart, for anyone worried they might be on the wrong side of the fandom craziness scale:







Fan of any age and gender who does wotagei, throws H!P birthday parties, dances to H!P songs on youtube, etc. = Some people at this board are probably laughing at you, but you're still pretty sane. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... umbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' />



late 20's~30+ guy who likes to jam to Berryz in his car, thinks Reina is "cute (like a puppy)," and has a good time laughing at general H!P antics = Unusual, but not unheard of or horrendously creepy. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /pouty.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':pouty:' />



late 20's~30+ guy who will only jam to H!P in his car and nothing else, thinks Reina is "hawt <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ebleed.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':party:' />", has an extensive collection of H!P photos/posters/etc plastered all over his walls, and tattoos Reina to his arm = Weirdo. Get a life, and fast! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... weirdo.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weirdo:' />



late 20's~30+ year old guy (or really, any fan of any age and gender) who is singularly devoted to the music of MM, thinks Reina is "a sex goddess <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... jerkit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':jerkit:' />", and buys multiple copies of everything with Reina's face on it to have a pristine copy and a jerk off copy = Horrendously creepy and beyond saving. If you are at this board, gtfo. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... gunner.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':gunner:' />

[/quote]



Why is this so Reina-centric !?! lol

[Tsujiji]

I think it's hard to try to pin point that bar that separates the fans from the wota because everyone is going to define what's socially acceptable slightly differently. Personally and it seems a lot of you agree, you cross that line when you visit the creepy-town side of things. ( The creepers who yiff-rape their Eri body pillows~ while have the rest of MM body pillows watch and/or jizz on $30.00 photobooks. ) Hygiene and appearance is also an important factor to consider too.



You guys have also listed some really gross behaviors of fans which are really good examples~~ like Ang mentioning the destroying of goods when a scandal arises. I remember my first experience witnessing a wota meltdown. It was when Nacchi kinda plagiarized and when she accidentally (and supposedly) sent a turtle to it's deathbed when she was only trying to help it. I remember seeing a camera-phone video of some nerdy Japanese dude knifing one of their Nacchi photo books to pieces and stabbing, and stabbing and stabbing it and then busting a nut on it. D: It was super unsavory and insane. I didn't understand how someone could take it so personally or lash out like that. Uggh. I am still seriously creeped out to this day by it. I seriously can not fault Rika for shit talking incident of these d-bags who make up her paychecks.





Sooo I guess that makes my personal definition of "wota" to be synonymous with "creeper". Buying a lot of merch, singing karaoke, talking about it, and going to events is the normal thing for fans to do.



→ Also portrait tattoos are always a bad idea. They always look hideous unless you find someone who knows what they are doing.

http://awfultattoos.blogspot.com/2007/06/bad-portraits.html