KARA suing DSP Media Entertainment for Slave Contract

[Pflaume]

Oh, snap.



I suppose this is timely since I have wanted to discuss the recent lawsuits and developments with slave contracts in Korea. There's precedent now, and part of me was wondering when the next group would sue.



I'm going to see if I have more on this to say tomorrow.

[Tallgeese]

Noooooooooooo! This sucks! I love KARA, not as much as 2NE1, but definitely more than SNSD! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... prised.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[sadude]

I never did like Gyuri. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /frown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Pflaume]

Uggggh. If Gyuri really didn't know, that's very odd. Presumably the 4 members have planned this for a while, gathered legal help ahead of time, etc. They didn't just decide this last night while half of them weren't even in Korea.



These are pictures of Seungyeon and Hara taken post-announcement. They're at the airport, having just returned from Thailand.



I'm clearly being Captain Obvious, but if the DBSK situation is anything to go by, we can safely say this is the end of KARA as we know it.

[Tallgeese]

Hmmh... break up after they make it big in Japan. Where have I seen this before? I think the problem arises when Japan promotions essentially double or triple their work schedule, and they (the singers) see very little if any of this profit, so essentially they're getting a pay cut working a lot more hours for the same money.

[Pflaume]

There's no question they were completely overworked. Their schedule was absolutely absurd. Even SNSD didn't do essentially full-on promotions in both Japan and Korea simultaneously, and SM are supposed to be the worst slave drivers. Whether or not they were properly compensated is almost beside the point for me; they were certainly suffering mentally and physically. No amount of money can make up for being completely miserable and exhausted all the time, with no consideration from your agency.



Take the overwork, dance practices, strict diet, and sleep deprivation that comes with a typical Korea-only promotion cycle, and add a full promotion cycle in another country PLUS additional solo activities (radio shows, dramas, etc.)... I can't even imagine that kind of living.



Also, late response, but...

I never did like Gyuri. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /frown.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Apparently, neither did the other members of KARA.

[tinytext]I didn't either, but I feel really bad for her now. I don't really buy that she had no idea, though.[/tinytext]



Edit: Wow, OMNTD, way to go. *slow clap*

[Arichii]

[quote name='Plum' post='91987' date='Jan 18 2011, 08:16 PM']I'm clearly being Captain Obvious, but if the DBSK situation is anything to go by, we can safely say this is the end of KARA as we know it.[/quote]



I love KARA so this sucks. But it really is weird that Gyuri said that she didn't know anything about it. That would mean all four members discussed the slave contracts without their leader? It's so odd and I'm so very confused T.T

[Shoujo Q]

Gyuri's obviously sleeping with someone so of course she "wouldn't" know.



This sucks but I find it funny that DSP Media is trying to trademark the name KARA now. xD





I guess this means no more Tasty Love for me. :<

[showraniy]

[quote name='Tallgeese' post='91988' date='Jan 18 2011, 09:22 PM']Hmmh... break up after they make it big in Japan. Where have I seen this before? I think the problem arises when Japan promotions essentially double or triple their work schedule, and they (the singers) see very little if any of this profit, so essentially they're getting a pay cut working a lot more hours for the same money.[/quote]





Honestly, I think half the problem arises when Japanese labels treat the artists BETTER than their Korean counterparts and groups see that the grass is indeed greener somewhere on the other side. Thinking that can prompt people to demand better than their current circumstances--or at least that's what I always assumed happened with DBSK since they genuinely did build an enormous presence in Japan before deciding to cut ties with SMent.

[Shoujo Q]

Apparently it was all over money and it's all the mothers fault except Gyuri's mother who doesn't mind her daughter working like a slave. Stage moms are the worst.

[Tallgeese]

Yup, EXACTLY what I thought. It seems to me a HUGE problem for Korean "crossover" artists in the respect that when they come to Japan, the contracts are basically written between their "home" SM/DSP/etc. Korean companies and the Avex/Universal/etc. Japanese companies, with the actual singers (DBSK, KARA, etc.) getting absolutely screwed over! It's quite ridiculous when you think about it.

[Haru]

I think I heard something about a new DBSK single; but don't quote me on it.



Still, this is pretty sad. I just started getting into KARA too. :c

SNSD could be next, maybe Brown-Eyed Girls. Did Wonder Girls ever premiere in Japan or did they go straight to working on an American premiere?

[fpd]

Hara's pulled out of the cancellation. Kinda screams of being threatened by the company to me and getting cold feet. Everyone knows idols are pretty much slave labor, and it made me happy to see a few more standing up for more than a few hours of sleep a night and their fair share of the profits.



http://www.allkpop.com/2011/01/dsp-media-r...act-termination





I'm sure there's gonna be about seven more articles by tomorrow afternoon... ugh I hate ugly bullshit brought on by corporate greed.

[Ap2000]

I don't care about them, but I really hope they win the lawsuit if they have similar contracts to the ones leaked some months ago, which obviously were horrible.

[eri]

Maybe it is like...

When the artists gain international popularity, they have more confidence to break ties and still have a career. They've got lots of fans now in Japan and Korea -- the fans will (I hope) continue to support them. Or maybe they are hoping another company will pick them up and try to continue KARA-like activities? Who knows.



This article was interesting:

http://www.allkpop.com/2011/01/what-is-the...eveloping-idols

It is looking at the cost of training an idol and the "recuperation" when some get famous (like KARA).



But seriously WTF is with Asia and their slave labor contracts, seriously. I hope that these two high profile law suits can get the company's head out of its greedy ass and set up something more humane for future artists. I was reading up on Suzuki Ami the other day and her law suit revealed that she made barely anything even though she was selling multi-millions of CDs.

[surasshu]

Urgh, it would suck if KARA fell apart. The wording of DSP's messages suggest that they're still willing to deal with the girls and keep them together, talking about renegotiating contracts and so on. I don't know just how viable that is, but... well, without Goo Hara and Gyuri I wouldn't have any real reason to care about KARA, and if it's just those two it's a bit bare-bones too. I just hope this can somehow be fixed, and at least not turn into the ridiculous shitstorm that is JYJ (eurgh) vs. nu-DBSK (yegh...) vs. Cassiopeia (<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... cepalm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' />).



... Here's a cute picture of Goo Hara and Seungyeon.







Reading a bit more, it really seems like this thing has yet to really settle. There are a lot of conflicting reports about payment, what the contract entailed, stress issues and so on. Plus, DSP said something like "we have no choice but to terminate all the contracts", but that was before Goo Hara cancelled her participation in this action, and after that they said something like "we want to talk about it", so that's two completely different messages. I'm guessing they offered Hara a new contract since she's the most popular member by a mile (at least as far as I can tell from appearances on TV and so on, though maybe that's confirmation bias since she's also my favorite <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' />).



EDIT: The more I read, the more I get the feeling it's actually KARA's girls (and their mothers) making a cash grab here. Though again it's not really clear yet. But comparing this statement by DSP to this one from Landmark, it's the Landmark statement that sounds more suspicious.

[Pflaume]

Nicole's mother looks exactly like Nicole except, you know, not super young.



I know, I am a deep insight/relevant news machine.

[surasshu]

[quote name='Plum' post='92077' date='Jan 20 2011, 03:21 AM']Nicole's mother looks exactly like Nicole except, you know, not super young.



I know, I am a deep insight/relevant news machine. [/quote]

Damn, she is a shitbag. "There is no parent who would gamble with their child’s life over money." No shit. It wasn't a gamble, you GUARANTEED the destruction of her career with what you made her do. It took KARA Goddamn years to get popular, they've finally achieved something and are about to bank it, in Japan no less, and now you conspire to pull the rug out from under them. Who the fuck is gonna want the leftover KARAs? Nobody. Gyuri can MAYBE carry a solo career (a year or two more in KARA and I would've banked on it, but now she can hardly even stand with the likes of Hyuna and IU, nevermind Hyori), and Hara can definitely still do the variety circuit (she sure as hell can't carry a solo career), but the other three? I wouldn't hire them if I was an agency, for one. And they are done as far as Japan is concerned.



No matter what, it's a bonehead move. "There is no parent who would destroy what her child has been working for through blood, sweat, and tears." Someone please explain how this is not doing exactly that.



Unless of course DSP somehow manages to pull KARA out of this as a group. But damn, the negotiating position of the 3 KARAs is not great.

[eri]

[quote name='///' post='92078' date='Jan 19 2011, 06:44 PM'][quote name='Plum' post='92077' date='Jan 20 2011, 03:21 AM']Nicole's mother looks exactly like Nicole except, you know, not super young.



I know, I am a deep insight/relevant news machine. [/quote]

Damn, she is a shitbag. "There is no parent who would gamble with their child’s life over money." No shit. It wasn't a gamble, you GUARANTEED the destruction of her career with what you made her do.[/quote]



Not if she thinks her child is being totally exploited and exhausted, right? It is strange that everyone blames the mothers for "greed" when we know these idol factories are enormously greedy and manipulative. Stage moms and starlets are hungry for fame but they are usually unaware what contracts really mean until shit hits the fan like this. I feel pretty sorry for them.



And I take official corporate statements with a grain of salt, considering that corporations are first and foremost and finally only concerned about their bottom line. And considering how deeply entertainment is mixed up with the Yakuza in Japan, I'm skeptical that DSP just had some lapses in communication about their paycheck.

[surasshu]

Oh yeah... I didn't read it like that, but I guess that could be what she meant. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> Still, she stands to lose her whole career on this gamble, and from what I've seen of her, she doesn't exactly have the brains to fall back on.

[tsukinobyouin]

It amazes me how all the news about this is calling them "The next DBSK" as if they were the first group to go through this. This same thing happened to H.O.T and Shinhwa years ago (slave contract disputes). Sadly, I don't see things with KARA going any differently. In the end, the agencies always win out. The group splits up, and while the members may get better contracts and do well on their own, the agencies keep profiting off of whoever stays behind and just start the cycle up again with The Next Big Group. I feel bad for the girls and other artists in their position, but at the same time I kind of feel like at this point the issue has become so well known through all of the scandals over the years that people should have a degree of awareness of what they're getting into when they join these companies.

[Shoujo Q]

This is interesting. I guess Kara didn't know they had filed because now Seungyeon might be coming back.

A representative of DSP Media spoke with TV Report on January 20th and stated, “There’s a possibility of one of the three members that filed for contract terminations returning, so we are trying not to let go of the hope. Yesterday, we were planning to meet with another member right after Goo Hara to discuss with, but we weren’t able to reach contact so we couldn’t. Fortunately, we will be meeting again, and that member is Han Seungyeon.”



He continued, “Yesterday, Goo Hara and Han Seungyeon did not even know that they even filed for contract terminations and were extremely shocked with the news. The members may have discussed the issue for a while, but we don’t think they knew that it would be turned into a legal matter so quickly.”

Stage moms all the way!

[Kago]

[quote name='TnB' post='92127' date='Jan 20 2011, 12:27 PM']I feel bad for the girls and other artists in their position, but at the same time I kind of feel like at this point the issue has become so well known through all of the scandals over the years that people should have a degree of awareness of what they're getting into when they join these companies.[/quote]



I completely agree with this. Not that it makes the contracts any better, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of popularity level that guarantees you will survive a lawsuit like this. All of the groups mentioned were hugely popular, then the lawsuit came, and not once did the companies cave and give them better contracts as a group. And each of them fell into obscurity shortly after.



When there are 10,000 other girls younger and just as good looking as you who would love to take your place in an occupation you elected to be in, there comes a time to just suck it up. You signed the contract.

[surasshu]

[quote name='PKyu' post='92156' date='Jan 21 2011, 12:14 AM']This is interesting. I guess Kara didn't know they had filed because now Seungyeon might be coming back.[/quote]

Well that's good news for me since she's the only other one I remotely care about (although I often get her mixed up with the other boring one <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> ). But man, what a clusterfuck. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... cepalm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />



I also agree with TnB and Pi Kago, but I will add that if it's the girls/guys themselves deciding an action like this then I stand behind them, but if it's an outside influence, like a parent or a manager, then it's really scummy.

[JPope]

From what I've read, it seems like this might all be about royalties on specifically Japanese CDs and DVDs. The Japanese distributors supposedly take the first 84% of all profits, leaving the Korean company to divvy up the remaining 16% amongst everyone who had a hand in the group. DSP also claims that each member of KARA was paid $300,000 US last year. If this is true, then the root of problem is the Japanese distributors. Eighty-four percent!? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. That has Yakuza written all over it. DSP further claims that KARA was actually offered a higher percentage of Japanese sales than is common for Korean acts (1.6 - 2.4 % as opposed to 1%), but that the parents of the girls never accepted or refused the offer before filing suit against them, which is why they girls were not paid their third-quarter earnings on Japanese sales in December.



I obviously don't know how true any of this is, from either side, but it's something to think about when forming an opinion about this lawsuit. The girls are probably overworked, but 300-grand is not a slave wage. And for every KARA, SNSD and 2NE1 there are probably a lot more groups of trainees for whom the millions of dollars invested never see any return at all for the company.

[fpd]

[quote name='JPope' post='92173' date='Jan 21 2011, 01:39 AM']From what I've read, it seems like this might all be about royalties on specifically Japanese CDs and DVDs. The Japanese distributors supposedly take the first 84% of all profits, leaving the Korean company to divvy up the remaining 16% amongst everyone who had a hand in the group. DSP also claims that each member of KARA was paid $300,000 US last year. If this is true, then the root of problem is the Japanese distributors. Eighty-four percent!? Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. That has Yakuza written all over it. DSP further claims that KARA was actually offered a higher percentage of Japanese sales than is common for Korean acts (1.6 - 2.4 % as opposed to 1%), but that the parents of the girls never accepted or refused the offer before filing suit against them, which is why they girls were not paid their third-quarter earnings on Japanese sales in December.



I obviously don't know how true any of this is, from either side, but it's something to think about when forming an opinion about this lawsuit. The girls are probably overworked, but 300-grand is not a slave wage. And for every KARA, SNSD and 2NE1 there are probably a lot more groups of trainees for whom the millions of dollars invested never see any return at all for the company.[/quote]

300,000 out of 82 million or whatever it was is still a pretty fucking shitty wage for how much shit they have to go through. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... tongue.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dance:' />





Basically over the years I've learned not to trust anything Korean companies or media say, and I already knew that parents lie out their teeth with anything involving money their children are making... so basically this situation just sucks balls in every single way for the actual members of Kara. I pretty much assume that they really have a completely minimal amount of say in all this happening and it was all between the company and the parents without even consulting the kids. Let's be honest, these parents probably don't give a flying fuck about their children in the scheme of things.

[surasshu]

Considering they don't actually create anything and are in a highly competitive field, it's actually not that cheap, at least at a guess. Since it's $300,000 each, that adds to over a million. If you consider the manpower required to just produce and market an idol act, it doesn't seem that skewed. All those people need to be paid.



One thing I will say though is that for idols they have to make their money while they're young. After all, a composer can work steadily for 30 years, but an idol surviving for 10 years in the industry is already rare. In that sense, it's not enough to retire on in a couple of years. But that would be kinda silly, anyway.



Personally, I'd question if they were actually paid $300,000, more than anything. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> But every emerging article seems to point towards this being more of a money-grab by the mothers. There's now this (though, allkpop is a pretty shitty site that does stoop to low-brow rumormonging without batting an eyelid). Take everything with a grain of salt and so on.



I can't even keep up with this shit. At some point this will all be figured out and then I'll see what comes out of it. Until then I'll be this guy: <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... cepalm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dance:' />

[fpd]

[quote name='///' post='92185' date='Jan 21 2011, 06:19 AM']Considering they don't actually create anything and are in a highly competitive field, it's actually not that cheap, at least at a guess. Since it's $300,000 each, that adds to over a million. If you consider the manpower required to just produce and market an idol act, it doesn't seem that skewed. All those people need to be paid.



One thing I will say though is that for idols they have to make their money while they're young. After all, a composer can work steadily for 30 years, but an idol surviving for 10 years in the industry is already rare. In that sense, it's not enough to retire on in a couple of years. But that would be kinda silly, anyway.



Personally, I'd question if they were actually paid $300,000, more than anything. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> But every emerging article seems to point towards this being more of a money-grab by the mothers. There's now this (though, allkpop is a pretty shitty site that does stoop to low-brow rumormonging without batting an eyelid). Take everything with a grain of salt and so on.



I can't even keep up with this shit. At some point this will all be figured out and then I'll see what comes out of it. Until then I'll be this guy: <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... cepalm.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dance:' />[/quote]

Tons of acts in America do nothing and make far, far, far more money than that. Just because they don't create the music doesn't mean they don't spend hours upon hours every single day suffering through multiple ridiculously long recordings and long practices. I'd be curious to see what 300,000 would end up being as an hourly wage for them, because I'm betting it wouldn't end up being all that much if you counted up all the hours they work.



Also, ceo of another company that has T-ara under a harsh contract (who is also a control freak as has been stated by T-ara themselves on strong heart lol) wants Kara to not be able to succeed in getting a new contract. Color me surprised that he doesn't want the door open for other groups to get a little better working conditions.

[al kusanagi]

American entertainer/athlete salaries are the most bullshit thing ever compared to pretty much anywhere else though, so that's hardly worth a comparison.



So anyway, let's look at this big picture:



Eri is outed as a racist.



S/mileage calls out Kara in a public forum.



Eri leaves MM.



Eri his high profile for about a week, then disappears.



Kara loses newcomer of the year, even though they're considered a shoe-in, to S/mileage. (perhaps some info that they'd be breaking up soon was leaked?)



Contract dispute goes public, the Great Korean Hope dissolves before our very eyes.



Eri is still lurking in the shadows, S/mileage's media presence grows.





Now I'm not sayin'. I'm just sayin' I'm not sayin'. But if I was sayin', I might be sayin, "Well played, Kamei. Well played..."

[Ap2000]

What have S/Mileage said about Kara ?

(The legs thing was with SNSD)