Huge Earthquake Hits Japan

[Gerald]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1300151526' post='95363']

http://www.japanprobe.com/2011/03/15/to ... ra_damare/



Don't look at the troll video in the bottom of the news though.

[/quote]

identity of France with “liberty, philanthropy, and equality" has he ever been to France? Here's a wonderful example of French liberty, philanthropy and equality, if you are white and straight of course.





[quote name='aine' timestamp='1300190642' post='95385']

Any objections? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/ohmy.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':o' />

[/quote]

I'd have no problem with that if it's the best option.

[alita87]

Lol, ignoring the fact that I get attacked for saying what anyone with common sense in Tokyo is saying.



Things got a bit bigger yesterday morning as the radiation levels near the reactor rose, so some students families who are always the ones to panic even at the slightest tremor decided to head to Kyushu. We did wonder if enough students would cancel that we should just close for the week but then by the afternoon most students came as normal and had a great discussion led my high level returnees about what we can do right now. They understand the seriousness of the situation but also said they didn't understand the food disappearing off the shelves. The main story many people in Tokyo have is how they walked 4 plus hours home on Friday. You can call it ignorance or naivety if you want but it doesn't change the fact that while Tokyo might have been affected in some way, in any other cities more south or west (ie Osaka) life hasn't changed one bit. So, those of us in Tokyo are going about our lives because that is what we can do to help. I mean besides donations and actually going up there to help (something highly discouraged) there isn't anything else we can do.



you can hate me for it if you want but yes we are concerned at work, just as concerned as everyone in Japan. And we are struggling because one teach up and quit and flew back to Germany but none of the rest of us are running away. Tokyo is my home, and unless they evacuate the whole of Tokyo, something that would be hilarious to even see tried with the millions of people, I am not going anywhere. Where I am there were mixed responses between students but the majority when asked where they were, were they scared etc said that they weren't really scared, just surprised since usually earthquakes shake a few times then are over.



As of last night the reports I heard said radiation levels were down, not sure how they are doing this morning. Blackouts for my area are planned for 6-10am but as of now I have power so if it is like any other days as long as people cut back on power usage they don't end up using all the blackout times. I am off to work soon, much better than sitting at home doing nothing but watching depressing news.

[eri]

Alita, stop making this about you.

[momoirosaya]

This story is so sweet! Her parents must've been so happy!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20110315/wl_time/httpnewsfeedtimecom20110315miraclesinjapanfourmontholdbaby70yearoldwomanfoundalivexidrssfullworldyahoo

[kitaoji]

@Madara: you know what's sad about being here in the small-town Midwest? The only bit of live news and discussion was with a few acquaintances from church on Saturday. In a a grip of anxiety, I called my friend who's in Hiroshima and sent e-mails to the Japanese department back in Berkeley to make sure they were okay (and they are, FYI).



I'm taking classes that are related to the disaster - that is, fluid mechanics and structural design. Even though it seems morbid, I wish my professors would actually have the heart to use a couple of examples that are happening right now in class. I think it'd probably make my classmates just a bit more aware that the world doesn't end outside the Great Lakes.

[alita87]

[quote name='donut' timestamp='1300232714' post='95434']

Alita, stop making this about you.

[/quote]



I'm not, I am giving you the perspective of someone actually living through it. And I am telling you honestly that it is not as bad as the news reports make it seem. Life is going on as normal, life does continue even when something bad happens. Not all of us have the time or ability to stop everything we are doing to mourn for weeks, and that is not going to help anyone anyways. If you think you should be helping more, then help more by giving through charities, don't act like those of us in the country don't care just because we aren't stopping and crying every five minutes.

[al kusanagi]

See, no one is GIVING A SHIT ABOUT TOKYO! They will be fine. It's all of the villages wiped out and the half million people who are now homeless that everyone is worried about. Tokyo is a total non-issue. They're not even getting the rolling blackouts.



Go to one of the wastelands that used to be a town and talk about how everything is blown out of proportion.

[alita87]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1300239120' post='95444']

See, no one is GIVING A SHIT ABOUT TOKYO! They will be fine. It's all of the villages wiped out and the half million people who are now homeless that everyone is worried about. Tokyo is a total non-issue. They're not even getting the rolling blackouts.



Go to one of the wastelands that used to be a town and talk about how everything is blown out of proportion.

[/quote]



Yes, but the problem is the news being shown overseas is making it seem like everything is like that and it is not. There is nothing wrong with going about our daily lives while showing concern. Unless you are on your way over here to go volunteer in what you are calling "wastelands" then you really aren't in the position to say how people should be living their lives here in Japan.

[al kusanagi]

What news are you watching that's giving you that impression? NOTHING I'm seeing on TV is saying anything about Tokyo having to shut down for the disaster (although I don't watch Fox news or other sensationalist crap). Or are you just being a douche as some kind of public service to give people a target to channel their emotions into.



And if I was still in Japan you bet your ass I'd be out there volunteering in those areas.

[Shoujo Q]

Uhm.... yeah





I came in here with happy news and you're all fighting! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... pyeyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':puppyeyes:' />



Anyway, HAPPY NEWS!



*Oh and a girl on H!O quit her teaching job in Tokyo and went back to Sweden today. It wasn't Germany though. Some people can't handle the stress of what's going on and I don't blame them for leaving. I don't know what I'd do, probably the same thing. Go crying home to my mother but I know she'd probably want me to because she'd be panicking every second I wasn't home. Different strokes for different folks. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lesson.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lesson:' />

[sadude]

[quote name='TnB' timestamp='1300111766' post='95311']

^ <a href="http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/f ... tion/">Not quite</a>. (Though I believe this was written before the latest updates Aine just post about, I think there are some good news sources linked at the bottom of the article).

[/quote]

Thank you for posting this here. I'm quoting you to highlight it and encourage people to read it, since there's a lot of misinformation and hysteria being spread by most media outlets about the reactors.



Here's an updated link to what TnB posted, except this one goes to the MIT Dept. of Nuclear Science & Engineering blog: Why I am not worried about Japan’s nuclear reactors - start here and check out the more recent updates after that.





My company's doing 100% match on donations to the American Red Cross and The International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies at UN (or something like that) up to $1,000 per individual (i.e., me), so I'm going to donate that way. I'd like to submit this as an option for the board, also, since it's an easy way to double the donation money.

[Ap2000]

This is also something I just came across and is very interesting to read:

http://www.mutantfrog.com/2011/03/15/ra ... ty-update/

[al kusanagi]

[quote name='PKyu' timestamp='1300241051' post='95447']

*Oh and a girl on H!O quit her teaching job in Tokyo and went back to Sweden today. It wasn't Germany though. Some people can't handle the stress of what's going on and I don't blame them for leaving. I don't know what I'd do, probably the same thing. Go crying home to my mother but I know she'd probably want me to because she'd be panicking every second I wasn't home. Different strokes for different folks. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lesson.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lesson:' />

[/quote]



I've seen people quit and leave in a matter of weeks, months, even days, merely due to homesickness and culture shock. I can imagine that compounded with what's going on now being highly stressful.



And I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to nuclear power generation, but is there any way to effectively end the process, or is it self-sustaining until it melts down?

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1300247267' post='95450']



And I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to nuclear power generation, but is there any way to effectively end the process, or is it self-sustaining until it melts down?

[/quote]



There's no easy switch to stop the nuclear reaction.

Depending on the compounds and the way of "shutting it off" (sea water + Bor being pretty much the last resort), this can take longer.

However, the energy decreases exponentially, starting with a strong drop and then falling slower.

If I understood this correctly, they're currently around 3 Megawatt power and they started with 5 Megawatt on Friday after the earthquake and all the systems failed. However, I'm not sure if the CNN guy was talking about something else with these numbers (how much the reactor(s) could produce e.g.).



I was googling a bit concerning this subject and it seems a reactor needs at least 48~72h to safely shut down and in this case shutting down does not mean rendering the nuclear fuel rods completely secured, but that the chain reaction is stopped. The rods are then still emitting hot.

Of course this is only with the cooling systems that are built into the NPP. If you have shitty cooling with sea water then this process will be slowed down. I don't know how much however. There's also the possibility of the chain reaction being re-ignited.



EDIT:

btw, a single fuel rod is only the size of a pen:

http://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... 0627094113

[al kusanagi]

Thanks, I was wondering why there just weren't failsafes that could shut everything down at a moment's notice.



Ken Watanabe has started up a site to help out. Moreso than donations, it looks to be primarily a show of unity. It's also good to have him as a spokesperson since he's pretty much the only Japanese actor with a fairly large international name, especially when Yoko Ono was the only other Japanese person the US media had commenting on the whole situation.

[sadude]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1300247267' post='95450']And I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to nuclear power generation, but is there any way to effectively end the process, or is it self-sustaining until it melts down?[/quote]

This is timely! A partial explanation to what you're asking was just posted here: http://mitnse.com/2011/03/16/what-is-decay-heat/

Ans there's also an explanation in the original link: http://mitnse.com/2011/03/13/why-i-am-n ... -reactors/



What AP said is partially wrong. They're NOT down to 3 megawatts from 5. Unit 1 has a rating of 460 megawatts and 2 & 3 have ratings of 784 megawatts. Also, it doesn't take 48~72h to safely shut them down.



"When there is a SCRAM, where all the control rods are inserted and the reactor is shutdown, the fission reactions essentially stop and the power drops drastically to about 7% of full power in 1 second. The power does not drop to zero because of the radioactive isotopes that remain from the prior fissioning of the fuel. These radioactive isotopes continue to produce various types of radiation as they decay. [...]

The decay heat that is produced must be removed at the same rate it is produced or the reactor core will begin to heat up."



So this is the issue that they're having, cooling the thing. The earthquake destroyed the external power supply that ran the cooling systems, then the tsunami flooded the emergency diesel generators, and the battery-powered generators kicked in. They ran for 8 hours as planned, then ran out of juice. They then went to liquid cooling and venting some of the steam, releasing some insignificant amounts of radiation by design. The ultimate backup is that the containment structure (which is still intact despite the earthquake, tsunami, and hydrogen explosions) will contain a meltdown, but they don't want to put all their money on that.



<img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lesson.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lesson:' />

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1300250226' post='95452']

especially when Yoko Ono was the only other Japanese person the US media had commenting on the whole situation.

[/quote]



Not true! George Takei has been all over it, and has given several interviews on CNN and such. But it's great to have more big names on it, like you said. The more attention the better.

[Shoujo Q]

The Japanese emperor has a mighty big head for such a tiny body. But it was nice of him to get on television to calm the people.

[Madara]

[quote name='donut' timestamp='1300232714' post='95434']

Alita, stop making this about you.

[/quote]



I, for one, appreciate hearing reports from the ground from our members in Japan. Given the potential for continued crises there, I remain concerned.



This kind of sniping, at a time like this, is way out of line.

[aine]

After some more thinking we have decided not to run the collective BBS donation.



Sorry for disappointing the supporters of the idea. It got us excited at first too, but when you think of it, it would be just a very impractical and inefficient way of doing something in the situation which requires all the efficiency there is. And whatever sum we would have been able to collect would still be just a tiny droplet in the sea of need, regardless if adorned with an "MM-BBS" tag or not.



Once again, apologies. We'll put up announcement with the links to donation sites later today.

[aine]

Guys, if you turn this thread into a flamewar, I'll bite. If you feel offended or trolled, do what you should always do - don't reply, ignore, forget. Thank you.

[eri]

I won't turn this into a flame war. In fact, I erased my first response days ago.



Many of us have friends and family in Japan and we're hearing many first hand accounts. From my side of things, people are frightened and disoriented even all the way in Tokyo because of many many many factors that do not include being a dumb fear mongering fool that should "not" be afraid. I'm happy that our bbs members are alive and safe. But don't minimize the stress and emotional state of anyone else right now.

[alita87]

[quote name='Al Kusanagi' timestamp='1300240218' post='95446']

What news are you watching that's giving you that impression? NOTHING I'm seeing on TV is saying anything about Tokyo having to shut down for the disaster (although I don't watch Fox news or other sensationalist crap). Or are you just being a douche as some kind of public service to give people a target to channel their emotions into.



And if I was still in Japan you bet your ass I'd be out there volunteering in those areas.

[/quote]



Not American news from what I have seen (though some of the AP stuff although accurate is a bit too close to fear mongering in how it is presented) French and German are so far the worse, with calling everyone out of the country and recording huge radioactive clouds that don't exist as being directly present above Tokyo.



And they aren't allowing civilian volunteers. So truthfully the only thing we can do in Tokyo or semi-affected areas is to send money, that doesn't mean we don't care. But it does mean that my company like many is being affected by this panic that has made us lose two of our part time workers, since most of the full time consider ourselves lifers.



But since everyone seems to think that me talking about my personal situation is just me trying to gain attention (which it isn't and I wasn't the one who jumped into this topic, I was called to the board) I do have some news. Among all the cancellations for Hello Project concerts and CDs (seriously... canceling music that makes people happy in a time when people need to be happy) I have proposed a couple of times to the staff twitter about the idea that instead of canceling everything Hello Project should do a charity concert. It would be beneficial as both a fundraiser and good PR. And I think it would bring some much needed cheer to the country.

[Gerald]

I also found Alita's comments very interesting, I thought they were only about her in the sense she was saying how things were affecting her and those about her. At least she is there which makes her far more qualified to speak about things than all of us who are thousands of miles away.



Although I admire Al's desire to help if he was in Japan I'm sure the last thing the professionals need is a load of amateurs running around and having to be rescued themselves.



I certainly get the impression that a lot of the UK newspapers and the BBC are over-hyping things with particular reference to the reactor problems. I'm not saying that, potentially, it could be very serious but a little more level-headed reporting would be better. I find Sky News seems to give a much more balanced perspective on things.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1300306615' post='95479']



I certainly get the impression that a lot of the UK newspapers and the BBC are over-hyping things with particular reference to the reactor problems.

[/quote]



The Sun is from the UK, right ?

[eri]

http://www.jprn.org/relieffund.html

More at: www.jprn.org



So, this was forwarded to me. Please be aware that nationalized aid is often limited to Japanese citizens (as what happened after Kobe) and so minority Korean/Chinese residents as well as visiting foreign victims might get overlooked or just underrepresented by mainstream non-profits. Foreigners (like many of our ELT bbs members) might get compensated from their own governments but zainichi minorities tend to just get fucked over totally. So, anyhow there is a non-profit based in California called JPRN (Japan Pacific Resource Network) that is collecting donations and titling their mission as the “Japan Multicultural Relief Fund.” It is just another place to make a tax deductible donation.



PS. I asked Alita to kiss and makeup. Sorry for my uh, overly zealous posting earlier. It is a rather emotional affair for all of us I bet.

[al kusanagi]

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1300306615' post='95479']

Although I admire Al's desire to help if he was in Japan I'm sure the last thing the professionals need is a load of amateurs running around and having to be rescued themselves.

[/quote]



You know I do have paramedic training, CPR, first aid and lifeguard certification. Part of my job requirement. =P



Here's a list of all the iPad/Phone games whose sales all go toward the disaster relief, courtesy of Street Fighter 4 producer Yoshinori Ono.

[Haru]

[quote name='donut' timestamp='1300307929' post='95483']So, anyhow there is a non-profit based in California called JPRN (Japan Pacific Resource Network) that is collecting donations and titling their mission as the “Japan Multicultural Relief Fund.” It is just another place to make a tax deductible donation.

[/quote]



I might look them up on CharityWatch real quick, and if they're all okay and all their ducks are in a row, I'll send a donation.



edited for ALL THEY ARE DUCKS

[Gerald]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1300307902' post='95482']

[quote name='The Turtle Moves' timestamp='1300306615' post='95479']



I certainly get the impression that a lot of the UK newspapers and the BBC are over-hyping things with particular reference to the reactor problems.

[/quote]



The Sun is from the UK, right ?

[/quote]

Regrettably yes <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />. It's the most popular newspaper in the UK and is unashamedly populist, after being a Labour Party left-wing supporter for about 14 years (prior to this it had suppoerted Maggie Thatcher whilst she was in power) as soon as it became clear the Labour Party would loose the last General Election they suddenly became a right-wing Conservative Party supporter. You can see more of their style of journalism HERE.

[Ap2000]

It seems they are looking into new ways of cooling it. They are flying over the plant with a SDF helicopter to drop water on the reactors. Apparently they couldn't do this earlier because of the radiation levels.

I wonder what happened with the plan to re-connect the reactor with some kind of electricity to get the internal cooling systems working again.



Reactor 3 is according to NHK World the first one to get the water treatment. The heli they use can have up to 7.5 tons of water, but it's not been stated how much they're using so far.



Go brave workers and SDF guys, you can do this ! (I'm afraid this is not going to help much however)