This is apparently the latest buzz in certain circles. I find the whole story very interesting and I'm gonna follow it to see how the authorities handle it. They can either do it the hard way and be criticized from the left, or do it the double-standard way and be criticized from the right. And I don't feel sorry for them at all for being in this situation. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
Read the original article: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant (hurry before NYT makes you pay for it)
Also two related blog posts from major editors that I found interesting:
My (Legal) Editor’s Dream
I was duped by Jose Vargas, illegal immigrant
I wonder what people's opinions are and why. Whenever we discuss immigration-related matters with Berry we come across differences between the American and European approach to the matter - sometimes pretty strong differences. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> So I wonder what the prevailing opinion on the BBS is.
Discuss, or ignore the thread because it's too serious of a matter. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/meh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';/' />
Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
Moderator: Tsuki
Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
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Re: Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
Saw this the other day. Whatever. He tricked The Man and got his. It's the American Dream.
PSN: Aurin13
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Sayumi R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
Re: Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
Just give him citizenship and/or don’t worry about it. The man received his prize as an American. I don't care where he came from - he has brought prestige to this country and we should be thankful for it. I bet he pays his taxes and acts like everyone thinks the way a proper citizen should act. Let him be.
And the following is a discussion on immigration in general because I like this bbs and respect everyone's opinions here and I'd love to discuss the matter/get new points of view. I can talk forever on this subject and will probably ramble and jump from topic to topic forgive me now for the post that'll make ukyo's mouth gape at its length
There's a ton of things to talk about when it comes to illegal immigration. And regardless of feelings on the subject it's a necessary evil if the current status quo is to be maintained. Any talk of the semantics is missing the point. "What's the root of the problem? Follow the money!" as an old history professor used to say.
Georgia just passed an anti immigration bill. What happened now? Oh, that's right - there's no one to pick the produce from the fields! Americans don't want those jobs. Who would? You work long hours in the hot sun doing hard physical labor for jack shit. Even if they offered it at 10-15$/hr (I believe the rate is usually 6-7$/hr) they would not offer benefits or retirement, the job is seasonal, plus the price of food would go up. I believe there was a site called "takeourjobs.com" awhile back that offered 8,000 jobs for Americans over Illegals. Plenty applied, but they wanted things like relocation money, benefits, high wages, ect. Only 16 ended up taking the job. Sure they'll go through and arrest some illegals because homeland security knows that most of the population picking the farms are illegals but they'll never do a clean sweep. It's a sort of unsaid agreement - arrest enough to keep up the numbers, but not enough that the labor force is compromised.
There is a serious discrepancy in the current economy. Many cannot handle the gas price increases. If the price of food increases that would be the breaking point for many. Who wants to pay $2+ for a single peach, apple, ect? We could keep the prices the same if the government subsidizes the farms (even morsel than they already do) but guess what would go up? :| Immigrants don't take any jobs away from Americans. They do the jobs Americans don't want to do at an extremely low wages that enable businesses to operate at a lower cost. Even if we fined the bus2inesses they would still hire immigrants because the fine would not be more than the cost of an increase in wages for a citizen. Err, that sounds confusing, to clarify – if we fine a business $5000 per illegal, then they would pay and get another because paying the illegal $6/hr is still cheaper in the long run over someone getting $9/hr.
Like all recent/first generation immigrants, there are growing pains. For every second generation that goes out and transitions to a higher class, there are those who stagnate and stay in the same class they were born. The ones coming over here illegally are not your cream of the crop. If they're successful in Motherland they're staying in Motherland. We get the ones that have nothing left to lose and only have the dream of a better life on their backs. They're almost always uneducated.
It's a hard subject. You have uneducated parents who work long hours at low paying jobs to pay for things like food, transportation, clothes, ect ect. They are either tired when they return home and can't be bothered to spend the extra energy on their children or aren't at home to spend time with their children. What do those children do? Many won't discipline themselves to do homework and the like. They'll flunk out and do what their parents did/do or turn to a life of crime. Some parents will encourage their children and the second generation will move up a class or two. Most won't. It's an epidemic that strikes all in the same class. The worst thing against immigrants is that most don't know English, and even if they speak it, they're not literate. How can you help your child with homework if you can't read the work? And if you're in a poor neighborhood, are the schools really going to be anything more than glorified babysitters? And that’s without going into the problems of the education system of America.
I think if you strip away everything it comes down to the higher classes bitching about the lower classes. It’s easier to target immigrants because they are just so different.
Note when I say "you" I don't mean "you the people of mmbbs" because let's face it, you're on a board for Japanese pop idols, language is not something that is a huge deal and you probably already know two <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
Unless you are bilingual then you need to shut the fuck up when you tell someone they need to "learn another language". If you're so much smarter than them then you should be fluent in several languages, right? Oh that's right, half of these people cannot speak proper English if it saved their lives. Plus they probably flunked out with a curved C in their required language class (which is usually Spanish. What's wrong? Conjugating verbs is too hard because you don't know what the fuck a verb is? You don't even have to learn a new alphabet ffs!!) And then, AND THEN they make fun of them! WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!? I would be deathly afraid to speak a language if I knew they would make fun of my accent and/or grammar. My Spanish professor came over as a young adult (20 iirc) and he has his masters in education. He still struggles with English in class. (when I was in there we had a system going on because I was the only one that could understand him sometimes)
Oh, and according to the census for the first time in our history white babies are the minority. I do wonder what America will be like in the coming years…
And the following is a discussion on immigration in general because I like this bbs and respect everyone's opinions here and I'd love to discuss the matter/get new points of view. I can talk forever on this subject and will probably ramble and jump from topic to topic forgive me now for the post that'll make ukyo's mouth gape at its length
There's a ton of things to talk about when it comes to illegal immigration. And regardless of feelings on the subject it's a necessary evil if the current status quo is to be maintained. Any talk of the semantics is missing the point. "What's the root of the problem? Follow the money!" as an old history professor used to say.
Georgia just passed an anti immigration bill. What happened now? Oh, that's right - there's no one to pick the produce from the fields! Americans don't want those jobs. Who would? You work long hours in the hot sun doing hard physical labor for jack shit. Even if they offered it at 10-15$/hr (I believe the rate is usually 6-7$/hr) they would not offer benefits or retirement, the job is seasonal, plus the price of food would go up. I believe there was a site called "takeourjobs.com" awhile back that offered 8,000 jobs for Americans over Illegals. Plenty applied, but they wanted things like relocation money, benefits, high wages, ect. Only 16 ended up taking the job. Sure they'll go through and arrest some illegals because homeland security knows that most of the population picking the farms are illegals but they'll never do a clean sweep. It's a sort of unsaid agreement - arrest enough to keep up the numbers, but not enough that the labor force is compromised.
There is a serious discrepancy in the current economy. Many cannot handle the gas price increases. If the price of food increases that would be the breaking point for many. Who wants to pay $2+ for a single peach, apple, ect? We could keep the prices the same if the government subsidizes the farms (even morsel than they already do) but guess what would go up? :| Immigrants don't take any jobs away from Americans. They do the jobs Americans don't want to do at an extremely low wages that enable businesses to operate at a lower cost. Even if we fined the bus2inesses they would still hire immigrants because the fine would not be more than the cost of an increase in wages for a citizen. Err, that sounds confusing, to clarify – if we fine a business $5000 per illegal, then they would pay and get another because paying the illegal $6/hr is still cheaper in the long run over someone getting $9/hr.
Like all recent/first generation immigrants, there are growing pains. For every second generation that goes out and transitions to a higher class, there are those who stagnate and stay in the same class they were born. The ones coming over here illegally are not your cream of the crop. If they're successful in Motherland they're staying in Motherland. We get the ones that have nothing left to lose and only have the dream of a better life on their backs. They're almost always uneducated.
It's a hard subject. You have uneducated parents who work long hours at low paying jobs to pay for things like food, transportation, clothes, ect ect. They are either tired when they return home and can't be bothered to spend the extra energy on their children or aren't at home to spend time with their children. What do those children do? Many won't discipline themselves to do homework and the like. They'll flunk out and do what their parents did/do or turn to a life of crime. Some parents will encourage their children and the second generation will move up a class or two. Most won't. It's an epidemic that strikes all in the same class. The worst thing against immigrants is that most don't know English, and even if they speak it, they're not literate. How can you help your child with homework if you can't read the work? And if you're in a poor neighborhood, are the schools really going to be anything more than glorified babysitters? And that’s without going into the problems of the education system of America.
I think if you strip away everything it comes down to the higher classes bitching about the lower classes. It’s easier to target immigrants because they are just so different.
Note when I say "you" I don't mean "you the people of mmbbs" because let's face it, you're on a board for Japanese pop idols, language is not something that is a huge deal and you probably already know two <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />Unless you are bilingual then you need to shut the fuck up when you tell someone they need to "learn another language". If you're so much smarter than them then you should be fluent in several languages, right? Oh that's right, half of these people cannot speak proper English if it saved their lives. Plus they probably flunked out with a curved C in their required language class (which is usually Spanish. What's wrong? Conjugating verbs is too hard because you don't know what the fuck a verb is? You don't even have to learn a new alphabet ffs!!) And then, AND THEN they make fun of them! WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT!? I would be deathly afraid to speak a language if I knew they would make fun of my accent and/or grammar. My Spanish professor came over as a young adult (20 iirc) and he has his masters in education. He still struggles with English in class. (when I was in there we had a system going on because I was the only one that could understand him sometimes)
Oh, and according to the census for the first time in our history white babies are the minority. I do wonder what America will be like in the coming years…
Last edited by Melon on Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
^ Light Coffee Colored Mocha Latte's with a sprinkle of cocoa powder. That's what Amercians will be in about a few 1,000 years if all the walls fall and everyone co-mingles and drops the racist hate. Except maybe West Virginia and parts of Kentucky.
I read a story the other day about this Scottish couple who came to vacation in America, got their passports screwed up when coming back into the country from Canada, thus screwing up their visa and ended up getting deported after 5 weeks in jail in Texas. Now if they had hopped the fence like an sensible non-American would do, they wouldn't be in such a mess. WILL NO ONE LEARN HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!?!?
But then again they got jailed in Texas, no offense but a state that big is bound to have a scary jail.
And I'm ALL for immigrants, but at least if you're here, learn the local language or at least try to because it's sorta rude if you don't I think. We have a nice girl at work, I can't understand a word she says but she tries hard and I just nod if I don't really understand every other word because her sentences are always backwards. She even got into an argument with another Spanish speaking co-worker when she told her to speak English so we could understand her. She said she learned it for a reason. I give her mad kudo-points.
I read a story the other day about this Scottish couple who came to vacation in America, got their passports screwed up when coming back into the country from Canada, thus screwing up their visa and ended up getting deported after 5 weeks in jail in Texas. Now if they had hopped the fence like an sensible non-American would do, they wouldn't be in such a mess. WILL NO ONE LEARN HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!?!?
But then again they got jailed in Texas, no offense but a state that big is bound to have a scary jail.And I'm ALL for immigrants, but at least if you're here, learn the local language or at least try to because it's sorta rude if you don't I think. We have a nice girl at work, I can't understand a word she says but she tries hard and I just nod if I don't really understand every other word because her sentences are always backwards. She even got into an argument with another Spanish speaking co-worker when she told her to speak English so we could understand her. She said she learned it for a reason. I give her mad kudo-points.
Last edited by Shoujo Q on Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is a place where a signature goes. Enjoy some Airi instead.
Re: Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
[quote name='PKyu' timestamp='1308960543' post='102280']
^ Light Coffee Colored Mocha Latte's with a sprinkle of cocoa powder. That's what Amercians will be in about a few 1,000 years if all the walls fall and everyone co-mingles and drops the racist hate. Except maybe West Virginia and parts of Kentucky.
I read a story the other day about this Scottish couple who came to vacation in America, got their passports screwed up when coming back into the country from Canada, thus screwing up their visa and ended up getting deported after 5 weeks in jail in Texas. Now if they had hopped the fence like an sensible non-American would do, they wouldn't be in such a mess. WILL NO ONE LEARN HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!?!? But then again they got jailed in Texas, no offense but a state that big is bound to have a scary jail.
And I'm ALL for immigrants, but at least if you're here, learn the local language or at least try to because it's sorta rude if you don't I think. We have a nice girl at work, I can't understand a word she says but she tries hard and I just nod if I don't really understand every other word because her sentences are always backwards. She even got into an argument with another Spanish speaking co-worker when she told her to speak English so we could understand her. She said she learned it for a reason. I give her mad kudo-points.
[/quote]
Why are Texas jails scarier than other jails? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' /> Texans are... a very different breed than other states. It's a certain mindset some people get...Rather, let's put it this way - a friend of mine recently got a tattoo of the state of Texas on her right hip. And it was the coolest thing to the facebook peoples. Would people of other states do that? lol Anyway, of course it's easier to get caught with a paper trail plus when you're illegal and working in certain sectors they're more prone to sweep it under the rug...
Re:english
Yeah, I understand that completely. I'm not trying to say immigrants shouldn't assimilate, but I hate it when people get on a high horse and act like they need to learn it without trying to learn themselves. It always ends up being this implication of the immigrants being uneducated/stupid because they can't speak a language they weren't born into. Meeting halfway would be beneficial. And everyone should be bilingual. I'm not, but I'm studying everyday so I can be someday. It only benefits you. Schools should put an emphasis on it from kindergarten up imo. And at the very least stop making fun of different accents and learning grammar. :|
I think a lot are afraid to try because they're scared of being made fun of. There's a quiet lady I worked with once that I talked to one night and we communicated with my bad spanish and her bad english in a laughable sort of way. Now she talks to me when she sees me because she knows I won't make fun of her bad english. She still won't talk to anyone else though.
^ Light Coffee Colored Mocha Latte's with a sprinkle of cocoa powder. That's what Amercians will be in about a few 1,000 years if all the walls fall and everyone co-mingles and drops the racist hate. Except maybe West Virginia and parts of Kentucky.
I read a story the other day about this Scottish couple who came to vacation in America, got their passports screwed up when coming back into the country from Canada, thus screwing up their visa and ended up getting deported after 5 weeks in jail in Texas. Now if they had hopped the fence like an sensible non-American would do, they wouldn't be in such a mess. WILL NO ONE LEARN HOW TO DO IT RIGHT!?!?
But then again they got jailed in Texas, no offense but a state that big is bound to have a scary jail.And I'm ALL for immigrants, but at least if you're here, learn the local language or at least try to because it's sorta rude if you don't I think. We have a nice girl at work, I can't understand a word she says but she tries hard and I just nod if I don't really understand every other word because her sentences are always backwards. She even got into an argument with another Spanish speaking co-worker when she told her to speak English so we could understand her. She said she learned it for a reason. I give her mad kudo-points.
[/quote]
Why are Texas jails scarier than other jails? <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /lmfao.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lmfao:' /> Texans are... a very different breed than other states. It's a certain mindset some people get...Rather, let's put it this way - a friend of mine recently got a tattoo of the state of Texas on her right hip. And it was the coolest thing to the facebook peoples. Would people of other states do that? lol Anyway, of course it's easier to get caught with a paper trail plus when you're illegal and working in certain sectors they're more prone to sweep it under the rug...
Re:english
Yeah, I understand that completely. I'm not trying to say immigrants shouldn't assimilate, but I hate it when people get on a high horse and act like they need to learn it without trying to learn themselves. It always ends up being this implication of the immigrants being uneducated/stupid because they can't speak a language they weren't born into. Meeting halfway would be beneficial. And everyone should be bilingual. I'm not, but I'm studying everyday so I can be someday. It only benefits you. Schools should put an emphasis on it from kindergarten up imo. And at the very least stop making fun of different accents and learning grammar. :|
I think a lot are afraid to try because they're scared of being made fun of. There's a quiet lady I worked with once that I talked to one night and we communicated with my bad spanish and her bad english in a laughable sort of way. Now she talks to me when she sees me because she knows I won't make fun of her bad english. She still won't talk to anyone else though.
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strawberryjam
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2504
- Joined: Sun Sep 17, 2006 6:47 pm
Re: Pulitzer Prize winner an illegal immigrant
I pretty much agree with everything's that been said.
Except language. I'm wayyyyyy on the right on this issue. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hahaha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' /> A lot of my relatives only finished elementary school in HK. They had to quit to help earn money for the rest of the family. So you can imagine, they're not really too literate in their native language, so it's REALLY hard for them to try English. They've been here since 70's and they can hardly speak English still.
BUT this doesn't mean they're not smart. But when required, they definitely can converse well enough. My aunt was a waitress and she still can't speak well, yet people loved coming to the restaurant to talk to her. And we had plenty of non-Chinese that came. My oldest aunt had it really bad. I guess she hardly went to ANY school or when she went, English wasn't important. She can only read the alphabet still. I wanted to take the subway with her, but all she knew about getting off at the right stop was like... "Oh, we have to get off at the stop that starts with R" if we want to go to Hollywood. But I honestly don't see any harm in this. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Because, I honestly just think it's really hard.. I mean, I really respect my family, I just don't think they're book smart so learning a language is hard, but I do think they had to be smart if they were able to move to middle class from lower class within their own generation. And it's funny, despite being book smart myself, in a lot of ways, I feel like they are still way clever than me. Why? Because all the things they know can't be taught in a book. Being book smart means I was spoon fed everything and just memorized it and spit it back out. And then I felt smart because I got an A+. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
ALSO, I could still go on and on about those kids I tutor seeking asylum in Ireland. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
But in the end, I just find it very sad that not everyone can be given the opportunity to succeed because of where they were born. I feel like countries in this sense are like... territories like a dog would feel defensive about. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
Except language. I'm wayyyyyy on the right on this issue. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... hahaha.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':hahaha:' /> A lot of my relatives only finished elementary school in HK. They had to quit to help earn money for the rest of the family. So you can imagine, they're not really too literate in their native language, so it's REALLY hard for them to try English. They've been here since 70's and they can hardly speak English still.
BUT this doesn't mean they're not smart. But when required, they definitely can converse well enough. My aunt was a waitress and she still can't speak well, yet people loved coming to the restaurant to talk to her. And we had plenty of non-Chinese that came. My oldest aunt had it really bad. I guess she hardly went to ANY school or when she went, English wasn't important. She can only read the alphabet still. I wanted to take the subway with her, but all she knew about getting off at the right stop was like... "Oh, we have to get off at the stop that starts with R" if we want to go to Hollywood. But I honestly don't see any harm in this. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Because, I honestly just think it's really hard.. I mean, I really respect my family, I just don't think they're book smart so learning a language is hard, but I do think they had to be smart if they were able to move to middle class from lower class within their own generation. And it's funny, despite being book smart myself, in a lot of ways, I feel like they are still way clever than me. Why? Because all the things they know can't be taught in a book. Being book smart means I was spoon fed everything and just memorized it and spit it back out. And then I felt smart because I got an A+. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
ALSO, I could still go on and on about those kids I tutor seeking asylum in Ireland. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
But in the end, I just find it very sad that not everyone can be given the opportunity to succeed because of where they were born. I feel like countries in this sense are like... territories like a dog would feel defensive about. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />
Last edited by strawberryjam on Fri Jun 24, 2011 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
rabbit reverie
here is a website in which I pretend I am an important person with important things to say.
here is a website in which I pretend I am an important person with important things to say.