Koharu's Youngtown Apperance

[AEUGNewtype]

I'm sorry, but bullshit. She sucked at singing, period. (Lots of other bitching)

Sorry you feel that way, but I'm not going to sit here and argue pure opinions with you, its obviously not going to accomplish anything.

I'm confused. Does the forum automatically squish them or something? I don't have anything specifically set up, but it's never looked that big to me even on my older monitor at work.

Same here. Even on my shitty old monitor at work, my sig is well within the lines of the screen when browsing this forum. Maybe its the layout or browser you guys are using? I have no idea. Maybe people just like to bitch?



Seriously, this is a print-screen screenshot of my shitty work monitor viewing the BBS:

Spoiler: [+]

[Kalle]

I'll admit, I was always kind of indifferent to Koharu -- mostly because I originally fell out of H!P fandom just as she joined ( and not because of anything related to MM or anything, just because I was fickle about fandoms at the time. ) The only song of theirs with her in it that I like is Kimagure Princess, and her voice is buried under all the other girls' in it <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... stling.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':whistling:' />



But man, I don't know. This just seems really uncool of her to do, knowing that many H!P fans -- the same ones that, you know, pretty much supported her ( directly or otherwise ) so she could graduate and get that modelling gig -- are listening to it. Nevertheless, I'm gonna wait for TnB's word on it.



That same blog also mentioned that Kikkawa Yuu was on the show trying to promote her single, and she was completely overshadowed by the arguing. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Kalle' timestamp='1358885940' post='142300']

That same blog also mentioned that Kikkawa Yuu was on the show trying to promote her single, and she was completely overshadowed by the arguing. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />

[/quote]

I read that as well, and I did hear her talk a few times, but honestly, the 2 guys they have hosting this show are annoying as piss and probably would've overtaken most of what Kikka had to say, if she would've even said much to begin with (she's not very talkative in general.) The hosts never shut the hell up for more than about 5 seconds, and the one guy's voice especially is REALLY boisterous and overtakes everything else that's being said, and he talks 1000 miles per hour on top of that. They're constantly laughing in the background and covering up what everyone else says. The entire show is a huge mess of overly-busy, bad audio production and is hard to listen to. I listened to about half of it and heard a good amount of what is being discussed here, but its actually pretty painful to listen to.

[emily]

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1358871858' post='142277']

The whole point is that you don't shit on people who helped you get where you are today. Even if you hated it, hated them, ect. That's just common sense, come on Koharu.



[/quote]



QFT. You meet the same people on the way up as you do on the way down.

[JPope]

Lol! Burn those bridges, girl! I'm not the least bit surprised that Koharu is every bit as stupid as she is talentless. She was the absolute least deserving person ever to hold membershiip in Morning Musume, yet she got more favorable treatment by management than probably 90% of her peers. I'd rather listen to Sayumi, Aika and Konno covering the entire catalog of the Andrews Sisters sans Auto-Tune than a single line of Koharu's shitty singing. She was the worst singer in the history of the group, hands down. Rarely has one deserving of so little been given so much, even in the entertainment industry, than Koharu Kusumi. What an ungrateful scrunt.

[showraniy]

Weeeeeeeell, I honestly don't feel half as bad about what she said as everyone else seems to, but I'm also not too interested in Koharu in general.



And where do people get this jig about her having an anime voice. I'm so sick of seeing that tired old argument for her piss poor singing, I could kick babies.

[star]

I've never paid much attention either way to Koharu. She never really left a lasting impression on me, so I ignored her; not because I didn't like her, just because I didn't find her interesting.

Although I like the fact that she's telling the truth about her opinions on her idol career, she did it in such a stupid way. You don't just come out and tell the group you started with that you played them just to get a job. Its a major "fuck you" to her fans. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />

What really irritates me is what she said about Sayu. Sayu actually loves MoMusu (as far as we know) and she makes that pretty evident. Koharu's comment is probably going to piss off alot of Sayu fans, adding to the people that don't like her.

It was just stupid, and probably will impact her career. But, I'll just wait for the translation to decide whether I dislike her or if I'm still indifferent.

[Anderei]

Here's a transcript of some parts. It looks like they only included what they felt was relevant, and not the entire radio show.

[AEUGNewtype]

Its clear she doesn't give a flying fuck about a bunch of wota fans, and I'm right behind her on that one, they can go fuck themselves. At this point, being in a very different industry with a very different audience, she really doesn't have to give a shit. There isn't a bunch of new Koharu idol merchandise out there for wotas to consume, so they don't still make money from those kinds of fans anymore. They make money from the women who buy the magazine to look for fashion, and realistically, I bet you not one of those women knows about the shit she says on stupid late-night idol radio shows, and even if they did, it wouldn't stop them from buying a magazine they enjoy because she said she didn't like being an idol.



It seems to me nowadays that Japanese women are starting to greatly appreciate public honesty from other women in recent years, as its really liberating to have women with an outward sense of pride and strength in an extremely sexist and repressed society, so I'd say even if the female magazine patrons knew of these shows, they'd probably like her more than before.



I've seen people try to say that wota somehow still make her and the company money, and its absolute shit. Even if they do, its to such a small degree that no one would actually miss their "support" if they all started to dislike her. She said that a few of the old MM wota will still show up to some of her meet and greet events and stuff, but the vast majority of her fans now are women. Wota are pissed that an idol who they spent a ton of money on in the past is breaking the submissive, fake image of an idol and speaking out on her own will and her own thoughts, so they're being "betrayed." God forbid women have free thought in Japan. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... lleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':rolleyes:' />



If the way wota act towards her or just in general makes her uncomfortable and unhappy, then she should follow how she feels instead of covering it up and doing a grin-and-bear-it act. This is just another typical issue of MM/H!P fans being super defensive and asshurt over light criticism and some truth being exposed about their perfect, beloved idols and a lot of people who already hated Koharu just using this as a springboard for more hate since she did something to come to people's attention at large again.

Sayu actually loves MoMusu (as far as we know)

Very telling and accurate to write (as far as we know) since, as we've already discussed, a majority of idols are extremely fake and dishonest in the way they act and the things they say. So even though Sayumi constantly says she loves MM and being an idol, it could be just as much of an act as watching a play on a stage, and we may never know the truth unless she grows some balls like Koharu and speaks out about how she really feels. She could just feel trapped as an idol for a career and be afraid to try anything else, and she might just be "settling" for it when there are actually other things she'd like to do in life.

[Cyrene]

She has courage to say these things, but as her fan I honestly feel a bit hurt hearing her say things like this. Even if it's the truth and she did just use Morning Musume, an idol shouldn't just SAY it like it's no big deal.



I don't know if I want to be her fan anymore and care about her career since she thinks so low of us... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/dry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />. I was a Koha-wota! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' />

[BonkyuAsh]

I respect her feelings honestly. A lot of the girls use MM as a catalyst to further themselves. So what she's letting it known that wasn't her favourite part of her career. If I had a job that held me back from a lot of things (I'm guessing mainly their personal lives) I'd come to resent it a bit. I'm sure she's grateful for being picked and being in it as it brought her good memories and an opportunity to be a cancam model. Honestly seeing how honest she is being, this is probably one of the best things Koharu has done imo. I'm sure she is right being in MM probably wasn't Sayumis ultimate dream although she lives it a lot.

[Duncan]

And nothing of value was lost.

[Pucchi-Mo]

Oh, she hated Morning Musume? No wonder she ruined all of the songs.



I demand they reboot Dream Morning Musume and have a public removal of Koharu and simultaneously introduce their newest member, the original "fuck you guys, I'm gonna take my titties and run" Goto Maki.

[JPope]

[quote name='Cyrene' timestamp='1358901657' post='142319']

She has courage to say these things, but as her fan I honestly feel a bit hurt hearing her say things like this. Even if it's the truth and she did just use Morning Musume, an idol shouldn't just SAY it like it's no big deal.



I don't know if I want to be her fan anymore and care about her career since she thinks so low of us... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/dry.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='<_<' />. I was a Koha-wota! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... ryalot.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':cryalot:' />

[/quote]

A fair reaction. It's kind of a "fuck you" to anyone who likes her because of her time in MM. Not really sure why she would feel the need to take it that far -- other than sheer, unaldulterated stupidity -- because it would be really easy to simply say that she really enjoys her modeling career much more than her idol career. She could have just said that being a model was her ultimate dream, and she could have done that without even mentioning Morning Musume, positively or negatively. I hope this get's her black-balled in the industry, to be honest, because someone so so completely devoid of common sense and basic decorum doesn't deserve to enjoy the trappings of celebrity.

[JPope]

Kusumi Koharu should be relegated to the Kago Ai Memorial Dungeon of H!P. No photos or any mention of her name on any company website or by anyone employed or under contract with the company -- just absolutely flushed down the historical memory hole for all time. Even better would be for H!P to acknowledge Kago's existence while at the same time erasing Kusumi's. Seriously, which girl has done more to damage the Morning Musume/Hello! Project brand?

[Ap2000]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358901221' post='142318']

Its clear she doesn't give a flying fuck about a bunch of wota fans, and I'm right behind her on that one, they can go fuck themselves. At this point, being in a very different industry with a very different audience, she really doesn't have to give a shit. There isn't a bunch of new Koharu idol merchandise out there for wotas to consume, so they don't still make money from those kinds of fans anymore. They make money from the women who buy the magazine to look for fashion, and realistically, I bet you not one of those women knows about the shit she says on stupid late-night idol radio shows, and even if they did, it wouldn't stop them from buying a magazine they enjoy because she said she didn't like being an idol.

[/quote]



If I were running a magazine and had a contract with her, I'd terminate it immediately, since she obviously can't keep her mouth shut. So how do I not know one day she will talk about me/my magazine bad ?



This is basically career-suicide in Japan.



[quote name='JPope' timestamp='1358907982' post='142328']

Kusumi Koharu should be relegated to the Kago Ai Memorial Dungeon of H!P. No photos or any mention of her name on any company website or by anyone employed or under contract with the company -- just absolutely flushed down the historical memory hole for all time. Even better would be for H!P to acknowledge Kago's existence while at the same time erasing Kusumi's. Seriously, which girl has done more to damage the Morning Musume/Hello! Project brand?

[/quote]



I still like Kago and I'd be happy if UFA would stop ignoring her.

[AEUGNewtype]

Why is everyone interpreting this as if she's insulting all of her fans from when she was in MM? This entire discussion and everything that came out of her mouth was specifically aimed at creepy male wota who made it impossible for her to lead a normal life, directly or indirectly. She didn't even specifically say anything negative about MM, she just said she feels more comfortable with what she's doing now and like she's moved a step above MM by accomplishing her real dream to be a magazine model. Similar to if a girl was an idol first and is now a professional actress and that was what they always wanted. Would it be wrong for her to say that she feels she's moved a step above being an idol? That's what being a singing idol is all about, is finding your path into other parts of show business.



She wasn't happy with the life of being an idol after being in it for a little while and seeing how it really was on the inside and worked harder to move on to the things she did want. Being an idol turns out to not be the life that a lot of girls want after they get into it, and that's why the turnover rate for girls in this industry is simply massive. Some rough it out and do stuff they don't want to do for a while so they can accomplish their other goals, some don't make it that far.



Any criticism of MM or H!P here is very indirect and fairly vague, where you really have to want it to be hurtful for it to be, and I think most people who are upset about this are mostly just hung up on the fact that it made Sayumi really uncomfortable and put her on the spot, or they're just completely misinterpreting the entire thing as her shitting on her entire old fanbase, when it only applies to a certain kind of people who made her life pretty miserable for a few years.

If I were running a magazine and had a contract with her, I'd terminate it immediately, since she obviously can't keep her mouth shut.

Whether a model can keep her mouth shut or not is never an issue, since they're there to be photographed, not to talk. It just so happens they decided to throw her on a radio show for whatever reason (she's not a regular here, and maybe they just wanted to reunite her and Kikka and see what happens) and she felt like speaking freely. She's probably just gotten more used to speaking freely lately since she's not a typical idol anymore and doesn't have to uphold this ridiculous image. I really don't think it's going to have any impact on anything, its just H!P fans getting asshurt. As usual.

[Enmiz]

I wonder how Kikka felt, being a MM audition loser, hearing things like that. I forgot about the Milky Way stuff and them working together. I watched the last Kirari concert, and she and Sayaka(?) were crying so hard when it was over and Koharu didn't seem too bothered because she had MM to continue her career.



I started paying more attention to MM after Koharu left, so I'm only mildly disappointed in her if this summary is accurate, but she could have shown more graciousness. It stinks Sayu was put on the spot like that.



Who knows? Maybe Koharu couldn't find a better way to free up her schedule?

[showraniy]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358909257' post='142331']Whether a model can keep her mouth shut or not is never an issue, since they're there to be photographed, not to talk.[/quote]



It's always an issue for any celebrity ever. They are not gaping holes in which their actions have more influence than their words. Their words impact their careers just as much, if not more, than anything else. It doesn't matter what specific job they're getting paid for--they exist to be adored and admired by other people, and words can fuck that up just as easily as actions.

[Haru]

I agree with AEUG on this and in a way, I commend her for saying what she did and taking the action she did; standing up for herself rather than being pedobait. But I'm a weirdo and apparently in the minority.

[rob]

I'm just gonna leave this here for anyone who thinks Koharu has "moved on" from being an idol

[Melon]

Oh god those unaltered vocals... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... wheely.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wheely:' />

[AEUGNewtype]

Being forced into doing random fan club events every once in a while is not the same as being a professional idol. Idols have notoriously over-busy schedules and are busy doing something related to their idol promotion almost every single day of the year from morning til night. When the question comes up, idols will tell that they literally have 3-4 ACTUAL days a year for personal time or whatever. Doing a cash-grab fan club event every few months is far removed.

Oh god those unaltered vocals... <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... wheely.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wheely:' />

These songs sound awful when sung by one person, no matter who they are, they're written for a group <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... wheely.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':wheely:' /> Leave it to UFP. If it isn't obvious enough that these are rare occasions, the fact that she has a copy of the lyrics of these songs in front of her should tell you how detached she is from this kind of thing.

[JPope]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1358908725' post='142330']

If I were running a magazine and had a contract with her, I'd terminate it immediately, since she obviously can't keep her mouth shut. So how do I not know one day she will talk about me/my magazine bad ?[/quote]



Agreed. She's a loose cannon in an industry that demands tact. She's not Tyra fucking Banks where she can run her own modeling career, she's Koharu Kusumi, washed up idol. She's there to do the company's bidding. I'd fire he dumb ass yesterday.



[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1358908725' post='142330']

I still like Kago and I'd be happy if UFA would stop ignoring her.

[/quote]



Me too.

[tsukinobyouin]

Ok. So. My translation is 90% complete. I want to go back over it and edit and I also want to get to the rest of the show. I'm pretty sure all relevant material is within the first 15 minutes, but I want to double check that I didn't miss anything at the end.



But I will say this. Everyone has blown it out of proportion, both the haters and the defenders. I'm so guilty of jumping in before I listened to the show. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/sigh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sigh:' /> But I honestly don't think this will have any significant positive or negative effect on her career UNLESS Sanma/George were more offended than they let on and decide to initiate super blackballing sequence. At most she might not get to be on YoungTown again.



My impressions, having listened to most of it, are really that Koharu is the same Koharu as ever. I find her vapid, ditzy, and spoiled. I still think that she could have expressed herself in a better way while still being honest, but honestly the part that annoyed me the most wasn't even mentioned. When they ask her about her modeling career, she seems to have little understanding of the industry and how hard many models really work. She's baffled by some of Sanma's questions and he has to explain things to her before getting a lame answer.



There are several incidents throughout the show of people talking over each other. Nearly everyone but Kikka is guilty. There are a few times Koharu takes it a bit far and interrupts people in the middle of sentences. She gets laughed at a lot. Overall I don't think anyone was being particularly rude in this regard. At one point Murakami George says she's like a different form of Momochi. I would say that is a really accurate description of her "role" in the entertainment world. Japanese variety has a very set dynamic. All entertainers have a certain character, and they fit together in such a way to create an interesting talk segment. All of these shows have guidelines scripts and entertainers use those to bounce off of each other in a calculated way. Sanma and George are famous tsukkomi - their role is to be loud, talk a lot, and make fun of stupid people. Sanma in particular is known for being pretty straightforward, no holds barred. Koharu's role here is to be the ditzy weirdo for them to make fun of. For most of the show, I don't think she's being more "real" than any other entertainer.



When she talks about MM, she's direct about saying that she used it as a stepping stone to get further. She doesn't say "male fans are gross and they suck" or anything like that, just that she wanted female fans. Again, it's a case of her motivation being understandable but her way of saying it makes it seem like she's dissing the support that got her to where she is today. It's another case of her just being ditzy. Sayumi seems genuinely shocked/upset for a bit. Sanma is actually the first person to accuse Sayu of doing the same thing, but Koharu does join in adamantly.



Honestly, I don't see anything unbelievable about Sayu joining MM out of a love for MM. When she auditioned the group was still really popular and well liked. They still had a decent amount of female fans. She doesn't seem to like acting, she knows she has no singing career outside of MM, and she gets to do a ton of great variety and modeling work (within a genre she likes - things like KERA) and probably makes pretty good money. I'm not sure what higher ambitions people think she might have. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' /> Koharu joined MM at a really different time.



As for Kikka - she seemed taken off guard. She clearly is stunned by Koharu's admission and admits to not knowing about this side of her when she used to idolize her. But she never says anything committal. There's a lot of "Well I uh..."

[eri]

In.ter.est.ing.



Roughly around here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 9yw#t=579s

Koharu is explaining that she was hoping to still challenge herself with something else too. And so, she left when she was still young at 17. Michishige asks, "but you joined Morning Musume because you wanted to be part of Morning Musume, right?" and Koharu says no. It was, as Sanma confirms, just a "step up." Awkward laughing and it sounds like Michishige who says it is awful of her.



The rest of the section I lifted from the website posted earlier

From http://shinzui.blog75.fc2.com/blog-entry-508.html



KK）　I wanted to get into entertainment so I joined Morning Musume, you know.

　MS） And then, was it "after that, everything was for myself," ?

Sanma） Hey you (to MS), you can't give out that kind of advice. Aren't you planning to "step up" too.

　MS）　Morning Musume is enough for me.

　KK）　Eh? So, you're saying just quitting and doing nothing is fine? [or like, quitting as it is]

　MS）　My dream was to join Morning Musume.

　KK）　REALLY!?

　MS）　Right now, I don't have any other dream beyond that.

　KK）　That has got to be a lie.

Sanma）　Right...

　KK）　Don't you think that HAS to be a lie?

Sanma）　I do, I do.

　

--

Michishige did sound defensive and kind of sad.



Koharu kind of makes herself look...just worse and worse. Lazy, entitled, and incredibly dismissive and rude to other people's hard work. It makes all of her criticisms about the idol world less valid.



For example, she explains that in the field of modeling, there is no need to practice, no need to study anything, no rehearsals, no nothing. Then Sanma kind of explains to her how other professional models actually practice and strategize. Koharu is shocked. I mean, any fucker that watches America's Next Top Model understands this. Also, she says she does not know what her interesting points are compared to other models...except her face. Yes, her face. Her cute face. Also her long legs. PS. Wish I knew what "chun-face" means.



Sayumi says she feels bad for Mitsui but Koharu again makes it all about herself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... yw#t=1180s

Sanma）　Today, Mitsui has caught a cold - the flu right

　MS）　And so as replacement、

Sanma）　Koharu has come･･･。

　KK）　I'm so glad [「良かった」= How good, I'm happy, etc]

　村上）　"You're so glad" (haha)

　KK）　If I wasn't here to fill in, I wouldn't have shown up on YoungTown for a long long time

　MS）　Hey the mic is too close (haha)

MS）　Mitsui is suffering right now after all

　KK）　She's suffering but, but I, I haven't been invited to YoungTown you know.

　KK）　For a loooonng time, just me.

　MS）　And we know the reason why (haha)

Sanma）　Ummm, your manager today

came to YoungTown for the first time like this going, "Ahh, as I thought, this was a mistake in casting" 0

　KK）　REALLY? (to the Manager)

　KK）　"Calm down"? Okay

Sanma）　They said, "cool down" (haha)



Man, she makes herself look so bad.

[AurA]

Well. This has been a fairly interesting thread for me. I feel like I'm just now experiencing a darker perhaps more "real" side to the idol culture. I have not been able to really analyze the content I have been enjoying.



I have yet to meet anyone in person who knows anything about J-pop (outside of the few concerts I went to, but I didn't meet or talk to anyone either), and up until now I have not participated in any online communities.



As for this Koharu controversy, I just find it fascinating more than anything. She was only a child when she joined MM, I doubt she had such specific ambitions at that time. To use fame generated by her idol career to boost her name in the entertainment industry. But I guess that's why they accept girls at such young ages. To make the idol image more "real".

[rob]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358921044' post='142352']

Being forced into doing random fan club events every once in a while is not the same as being a professional idol. Idols have notoriously over-busy schedules and are busy doing something related to their idol promotion almost every single day of the year from morning til night. When the question comes up, idols will tell that they literally have 3-4 ACTUAL days a year for personal time or whatever. Doing a cash-grab fan club event every few months is far removed.

[/quote]



And yet.... don't bite the hand that feeds you.

[AurA]

[quote name='eri' timestamp='1358921935' post='142356']

Michishige did sound defensive and kind of sad.

[/quote]



I would be fairly insulted if someone questioned my dreams like that too.

[showraniy]

Thanks, TnB and eri, for translating. That exchange with Sayu definitely sounds about right for both of them.



Koharu reminds me of myself in that she'll be candid about anything purely because she's too ditzy to tell otherwise, so I find it more endearing just for that. To idols, who build their worlds on being tactful, all this stuff may be scandalous to admit openly, but I'm sure she's speaking for a lot of girls who just wouldn't say so themselves. No offense to Sayumi, but I would hope the girls would have more ambition than just that group at some point. Definitely not at twelve, but at some point they have to graduate, and I'm missing something if 22-24 is the new retirement age.