Koharu's Youngtown Apperance

[Anderei]

So, Aika missed Young Town because of the flu, and was replaced by Koharu. She had some interesting things to say about why she joined Morning Musume and graduated so early. This tumblr post translated some of it.



"In summary:



The real reason for her to audition for Momusu was to simply join show-business.



She always wanted to be a model but had to realize that while in Momusu the modelling jobs she would get would be aimed towards men (UTB and such)… and that was not the direction as a model she wanted to go.



That’s why she graduated Momusu early at the age of 17 to still have a chance to model for CanCam which she always loved.



If that wasn’t enough, she feels that being a model for CanCam is a “step up” from being a Idol in Momusu in her career.



As a idol she was obsequious to her mostly male fanbase.



(I imagine she’s talking about stuff like the ‘no boyfriend’ rule… the whole fap-business in general that limited her public image and more importantly her private life)



And thinks it’s better with her mostly female fanbase as a fashion model now.



-



Another thing that gained a lot of attention is that Sayumi seems honestly upset about what Koharu is saying.



She calls her “awful” and throws in questions towards Koharu even though Samna is talking…



-



Furthermore, Koharu questions Sayumi’s statement that being in Momusu has been her (real) dream.



-



At one point they even mention how the manager (don’t know if Koharu’s and the show’s) looked troubled by what Koharu was saying.



Also, SanmaShoji expressed their annoyance by Koharu’s constant interruptions when other people were talking and not taking the hosts and the show serioulsy: causing interruptions in the flow of the show during the ‘curtesy talk’ part which the hosts told her off for ‘reminding’ “this is not TV” (no cuts, second takes, limited broadcast time).



SanmaShoji said casting her for the radio show was a failure. (jokingly but be sure it was meant honestly)"



----





I haven't heard the show, so I can't say whether Sayumi seemed upset by everything Koharu was saying. I am surprised that Koharu would be so open about all this. I know she's probably not the only one who joined just to get her foot in the door, but it seems like you at least pretend you were a huge fan beforehand.

[Shoujo Q]

First heard about the koharu fiasco on Facebook. Seems to be mostly true. Koharu never gave the impression that she cared for morning musume so to actually hear her speak it kind of feels like vindication for me. She's an ungrateful swot.

[cadmonkey]

I don't know how much I trust a source called "Criticize everything Haro Puro", but I don't think it's such a big deal. Everyone had a reason to join, and I kind of feel like Haruna joined for the same reason.



However,

Furthermore, Koharu questions Sayumi’s statement that being in Momusu has been her (real) dream.

kind of pisses me off. She's been in MM for ten years now, and looks like she'll be the longest-tenured member at the time of her graduation, so why the fuck would you question Sayu's devotion to the group.

[tsukinobyouin]

[quote name='Shoujo Q' timestamp='1358814596' post='142231']

First heard about the koharu fiasco on Facebook. Seems to be mostly true. Koharu never gave the impression that she cared for morning musume so to actually hear her speak it kind of feels like vindication for me. She's an ungrateful swot.

[/quote]



I want to hear the actual radio show to be sure - this wouldn't be the first time mistranslations or misinterpretations of tone caused an uproar in a foreign fan community. That said, if this is all accurate... everything PQ said. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /noway.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' /> I don't even care if any girls admit they joined MM solely to get into the business, I'd rather them not pretend to be fans if they weren't. I can even understand if they were unprepared or overwhelmed by the fanbase. But none of that is an excuse for displaying a complete lack of respect and gratitude for the group that got you started, the agency, the staff, and all of the past and present members of MM who do love the group.



Also... let's be real Koharu. You may have more female fans these days because of CanCam, which IS a magazine you should be proud to be in, but the people coming to your fanclub events (which you wore a sailor uniform to because you're suuuch a serious model)? Mostly dudes. The fans from your MM days stick around, and it's probably not a good idea to totally dump on them.

[Shoujo Q]

[quote name='TnB' timestamp='1358815348' post='142233']

[quote name='Shoujo Q' timestamp='1358814596' post='142231']

First heard about the koharu fiasco on Facebook. Seems to be mostly true. Koharu never gave the impression that she cared for morning musume so to actually hear her speak it kind of feels like vindication for me. She's an ungrateful swot.

[/quote]



I want to hear the actual radio show to be sure - this wouldn't be the first time mistranslations or misinterpretations of tone caused an uproar in a foreign fan community. That said, if this is all accurate... everything PQ said. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /noway.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' /> I don't even care if any girls admit they joined MM solely to get into the business, I'd rather them not pretend to be fans if they weren't. I can even understand if they were unprepared or overwhelmed by the fanbase. But none of that is an excuse for displaying a complete lack of respect and gratitude for the group that got you started, the agency, the staff, and all of the past and present members of MM who do love the group.



Also... let's be real Koharu. You may have more female fans these days because of CanCam, which IS a magazine you should be proud to be in, but the people coming to your fanclub events (which you wore a sailor uniform to because you're suuuch a serious model)? Mostly dudes. The fans from your MM days stick around, and it's probably not a good idea to totally dump on them.

[/quote]



Here it is TnB -> http://youtu.be/7S0Kjdf39yw

[AEUGNewtype]

This is pretty amazing. Koharu has always been a badass and it always felt like management treated her like dogshit most of the time she was more active, so this feels like vindication for me in the opposite direction, that someone is actually standing up and criticizing shitty UFA management to their faces. Making fun on Sayumi on the air? Just icing on that cake. Go fuckin' get 'em, Koha. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/geof.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':geof:' />

[Anderei]

It doesn't seem like a criticism of UFP rather than being an idol in general. Especially since she hasn't gone to another management company. There's probably other idols who feel the same way but won't ever say anything for fear of seeming ungrateful. Aside from her actual graduation I don't think Koharu was treated unfairly. She was given opportunities others didn't and doesn't seem grateful at all to her fans that made it possible.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='Anderei' timestamp='1358820728' post='142244']

It doesn't seem like a criticism of UFP rather than being an idol in general. Especially since she hasn't gone to another management company. There's probably other idols who feel the same way but won't ever say anything for fear of seeming ungrateful. Aside from her actual graduation I don't think Koharu was treated unfairly. She was given opportunities others didn't and doesn't seem grateful at all to her fans that made it possible.

[/quote]

When the only experience you have of being an idol is being an idol under shitty post-prime MM conditions, I would say that a criticism of "being an idol" is pretty directly also a criticism of MM management itself. She did have some opportunities that other people didn't, but she also got ass-shafted when it came to attention in MM, and it became increasingly clear as time went on.

[Melon]

Anderei has a point. She had a solo career right off the bat and was a prominent lead in the singles. I know a lot of girls join any idol group they can to get into show business, but Koharu shouldn't have that attitude because I doubt she'd get that modeling job for CanCam if she wasn't already a face in entertainment. I'm sure all the girls (of any idol group) have their days where they're sick of idol-dom and all it implies, but Koharu doesn't have to be a bitch about it. She could easily say "I like my modeling career more than being an idol." and get her point across without biting the hand that feeds her.



Of course, that would mean Koharu not acting like the Koharu that drove me away from MM fandom <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



edit - Any girl in the lineup with Takahashi was bound to be shafted, just like all the new girls are in respect to Riho. lol



edit 2 - I guess my personal dislike of Koharu is getting in the way of my objectivity, but I don't think it's smart for anybody in show-business to look down or disrespect their fans (or in her case, getting the fans of Sayumi involved too)

[AEUGNewtype]

Idols being bitches and being vocal about stuff is what the industry needs more of, in my opinion. I've been really tired of idols doing the usual super-fake act for the last few years, I guess that's why I gravitated more towards Idoling!!! or some of the smaller unknowns who don't over-do the idol act so much, its really refreshing.

[tsukinobyouin]

Thanks PQ! I'll give it a listen tomorrow.



[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358825329' post='142251']

Idols being bitches and being vocal about stuff is what the industry needs more of, in my opinion. I've been really tired of idols doing the usual super-fake act for the last few years, I guess that's why I gravitated more towards Idoling!!! or some of the smaller unknowns who don't over-do the idol act so much, its really refreshing.

[/quote]



Hmm... I like to see idols being more "real" too, so I can see where you're coming from. I guess it's a matter of taste, but I think (and would prefer) that it be done in a classy, respectful way. I've heard quite a few other idols speak candidly about tough times, being shunned by management, fights they had with other people in their group, which jobs they prefer over others, etc. They've all done it in a way that seems honest but still respectful of the opportunities and support they've been given. I've never heard anyone openly criticize their own fanbase in any way though.



As for Koharu's level of exposure in MM... it's possible some of that was her own doing. If she truly felt the way the translations say, she may have expressed a wish for the solo career to end because she didn't like the direction it was going in (I realize the anime ended, but that didn't stop Buono - they could have continued to milk Koharu's solo career if it seemed lucrative). She may not have worked as hard at singing and dancing or pushed as much for a front spot if her heart wasn't in it. I know a lot of it is just management's choice of favorites, but I do think personal drive has a factor in what marketing potential they see in a girl.

[Miss Moonlight]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358825329' post='142251']

Idols being bitches and being vocal about stuff is what the industry needs more of, in my opinion..

[/quote]

I can't stand Koharu but actually I agree with this. If it had been someone I like I'd probably think it was the most awesome thing ever.

[rob]

FINALLY the real Koharu stands up, I always knew she was a two faced obnoxious little bitch. BANG EXPOSED.



Now go die in a pit you horse faced witch <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nceman.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':danceman:' />



You guys are fucking deluded if you think people think the idol business is "real" everyone including us the fans know it's all fake, we just choose not to give a shit.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='rob' timestamp='1358831727' post='142260']

You guys are fucking deluded if you think people think the idol business is "real" everyone including us the fans know it's all fake, we just choose not to give a shit.

[/quote]

This makes absolutely no sense. Read that to yourself real quick.



All I'm trying to say is that there should be more little moments and behaviors of honesty in the industry. We all know it's never going to be 100% honest, and that would actually be pretty boring, but at least seeing some raw honesty come through every once in a while is extremely refreshing and endearing.

[aine]

I rejoiced when Koharu graduated but tried to keep it mostly to myself, because, you know, hate the song/management, not the singer. But if TnB confirms even half of what she supposedly said is true, then she can officially go fuck herself and die in a fire. Honesty or not, it's an ill bird that shits its own nest. I hope that she's just shut the door for any further career in the showbiz for herself, no less than if she just went and did all-out porn. Miracle my fucking ass.



Newtype, why do you even bother keeping up with H!P any more at all, you seem to despise every single thing about it. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Mukuro]

The only part of this that really bugs me is her comment to Sayu. I don't care about the rest it's not making me like her anymore than I already don't but leave Sayu out of your annoying harsh honesty session. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /noway.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':noway:' />

[rob]

aine - I ask the myself the very same question every time newtype makes a post, I always assumed they were just trolling?



I think MM has a pretty broad range of real and fake, reina for example has never really tried to hide the fact she can't really be arsed, it's just the last 2-3 years that it's been so obvious everyone can see it. whereas Sayumi likes to do the whole idol thing. It was the same back in the day with the likes of Yuko being pretty real and Rika being pretty fake.

[AEUGNewtype]

[quote name='aine' timestamp='1358849675' post='142267']

Newtype, why do you even bother keeping up with H!P any more at all, you seem to despise every single thing about it. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... nfused.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]

Don't start this crap again. I've been following H!P for 12 years now, and I still highly enjoy some of the stuff they put out, and you obviously don't read all my posts if you think I don't. Even if an idol group only puts out 1 song a year that I like and the rest is crap, I don't feel that the little effort spent keeping up with their releases was a waste. Yes, the management is piss-poor and the production value of the entire project has mostly gone down the shitter in recent years, but they are still able to succeed sometimes.

[al kusanagi]

You can talk about production values and how members are used/misused all day, but there is nothing poor about the management if girls are willing to stay with the same company for over a decade, well after they've left HP. By all accounts I've read, Up Front is considered to be one of the best management agencies in Japan.



Also, I'm not posting since I'm only allowed to say the C-word 73 times a month and I'd burn the rest here talking about that rat-faced horse-harpy.

[yuzuriha]

Koharu was the first nail in the coffin of my MM fandom back in the day (Aika being the second), and even though I still kind of followed them after she joined I didn't follow them as much as I would have despite the fact I was in Japan at the time.



Anyway, I couldn't stand her from the start because she just seemed like an entitled bitch to me. I can't really listen to the radio show since I'm at work but I'm going to assume the summary is true and say this basically confirms what I've said from the beginning. She did grow up to be really pretty, but she was so awkward looking when she first joined, couldn't sing for shit, and acted like I SO DESERVE TO BE THE SOLE WINNER OF THIS AUDITION. Ugh, I dunno her attitude just always pissed me off.



But christ, she was in the special 10 year anniversary group. I feel like she so didn't deserve that.



I get what everyone is saying about her speaking up about the idol industry, but this really just makes her seem super ungrateful.

[Melon]

AEUG tends to post about what he likes as much as he dislikes, always has. I don't see why it's shocking anymore. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



On topic:

Fuck Koharu, never liked her from the start, and now she shits on her fans and other members. Even if Sayu feels the same way (which is doubtful because she's one of the ones that seems to genuinely love being an idol and other idols in general even outside of H!P) drawing her in like that and trying to make her lose her wota is damaging to her brand and the MM brand.



edit - but we've had idols speak out before, but they always tend to acknowledge their idol past is what helped them get wherever they are today. The whole point is that you don't shit on people who helped you get where you are today. Even if you hated it, hated them, ect. That's just common sense, come on Koharu.



All the Koha haters are out of the woodworks now that we have a genuine reason to hate her. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Of course, now that she comes out and tells the truth, I'm pissed she fucked up Dream Morning Musume.

[yuzuriha]

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1358871858' post='142277']



Of course, now that she comes out and tells the truth, I'm pissed she fucked up Dream Morning Musume.

[/quote]



I KNOW, RIGHT?!

[Ap2000]

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1358871858' post='142277']



All the Koha haters are out of the woodworks now that we have a genuine reason to hate her. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]



I always called her the shitstain of the H!P.

I can't stand the obnoxious Sayumi either, but what Kusumi said to her was so dumb.

[neshcom]

I never liked Koharu, but I think her intentions of jumping-off from MM aren't outlandish, especially for showbusiness. So she hammed it up and played a part and I bet she hustled to get the Kirarin and DMM and Anniversary parts. She made herself valuable and turned that into the modelling gig she wanted and I don't find fault in that.



But there is nothing more stupid than broadcasting that to your entire fucking fanbase. It's kind of sleezy. Maybe it's manipulative. It brings into question if any of the gigs she was given before were worthwhile. You don't tell people how the sausage is made. Likewise, trying to pry out a hidden motivation from Sayumi while she's still in MM is awful and messing with the format of live radio is exceptionally dicey because that'll stop you from getting booked again.

[Pflaume]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358822380' post='142245']

When the only experience you have of being an idol is being an idol under shitty post-prime MM conditions, I would say that a criticism of "being an idol" is pretty directly also a criticism of MM management itself. She did have some opportunities that other people didn't, but she also got ass-shafted when it came to attention in MM, and it became increasingly clear as time went on.

[/quote]



Arguing with AEUG, activate. Oh, please. Koharu got far more exposure than the average MM member. Completely baseless hype about her abilities, major solo lines in most singles, lots of screen time, a frigging solo career and subunit, plus voice acting gigs. She didn't get shafted, she got favored, especially considering she's musically talentless. Saying she didn't get enough attention is so off-base it's just funny.



Defending AEUG, activate. That said, AEUG often jumps into threads to voice negative opinions on things and I get that that's annoying, but I actually think this instance is different. This is a discussion about what Koharu said regarding MM. If he agrees with her, saying so is a relevant contribution.



Arguing with AEUG, reactivate. BUT SERIOUSLY, DUDE, GET A SMALLER SIG. IT'S EATING UP MY SCREEN.

[AEUGNewtype]

You can talk about production values and how members are used/misused all day, but there is nothing poor about the management if girls are willing to stay with the same company for over a decade, well after they've left HP. By all accounts I've read, Up Front is considered to be one of the best management agencies in Japan.

Of course they're going to stay with the same agency when the agency continues to pay them money to do almost nothing. Why wouldn't you?

Of course, now that she comes out and tells the truth, I'm pissed she fucked up Dream Morning Musume.

Can't really buy into that. Most of those girls were already at the end of their careers, DMM wasn't making any waves in the industry, or even in H!P fandom, for that matter (sales were terrible and got almost no promotion,) it was actually kind of embarrassing to some degree, seeing these 30 year old women singing silly Tsunku dance songs. Not that the songs were bad, but it was pretty obvious the girls were past their prime as idols and the music just didn't fit them as a group.

She didn't get shafted, she got favored, especially considering she's musically talentless. Saying she didn't get enough attention is so off-base it's just funny.

Just because everyone hates her stupid anime voice doesn't mean that's how she actually sings. That was a lot of her exposure, but it was basically singing as a character, just like fucking stupid Momoko. When Momoko sings like herself, like she does in Buono, she's actually not bad to listen to, but in Berryz, I want to chop her goddamn head off. She's not musically talentless just because you didn't like her character image songs. And she was a good dancer, too, which is related to music. If you want to get into discussions about people being musically talentless just based on vocal performances, current H!P has that in droves.

Arguing with AEUG, reactivate. BUT SERIOUSLY, DUDE, GET A SMALLER SIG. IT'S EATING UP MY SCREEN.

You people with your damn low resolution monitors! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />

[yuzuriha]

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1358873150' post='142282']

[quote name='Petit Hulk' timestamp='1358871858' post='142277']



All the Koha haters are out of the woodworks now that we have a genuine reason to hate her. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... >/rofl.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]



I always called her the shitstain of the H!P.

I can't stand the obnoxious Sayumi either, but what Kusumi said to her was so dumb.

[/quote]





Yep, exactly. And actually Sayu has earned some of my respect due to her clear love for MM. IMO she never deserved to join in the first place, but at least she shows dedication and strives to improve. Koharu just saw it as a means to an end. I read part of the transcript in Japan and Sayu did get really upset...I'm not listening to an hour+ radio show though.

[Pflaume]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358876885' post='142287']

Just because everyone hates her stupid anime voice doesn't mean that's how she actually sings. That was a lot of her exposure, but it was basically singing as a character, just like fucking stupid Momoko. When Momoko sings like herself, like she does in Buono, she's actually not bad to listen to, but in Berryz, I want to chop her goddamn head off. She's not musically talentless just because you didn't like her character image songs. And she was a good dancer, too, which is related to music. If you want to get into discussions about people being musically talentless just based on vocal performances, current H!P has that in droves.

[/quote]



I'm sorry, but bullshit. She sucked at singing, period. I mean, lord, I started cringing when she sang Furusato during her auditions and didn't stop until she graduated. The anime voice was never my problem. You know what the kicker to your argument is? I loved most of her Kirari releases. Balalaika was my jam for like a year, but that doesn't change the fact that she's not a good singer.



Also, you're forgetting that I'm not a H!P fan anymore, so I'm not sure what arguing other people in H!P are poor singers is meant to achieve. I'm not saying she was crap compared to the rest of H!P; H!P has tons of crappy singers. I'm saying she was crap compared to people who can actually sing. Going, "But like, look! Other people suck more!" doesn't change that she, too, sucked the big suck.



Her dancing was passable.



[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358876885' post='142287']

You people with your damn low resolution monitors! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />

[/quote]



Even on my high-resolution monitor back in America, that sig is pushing it. On this computer, it's driving me up a wall. I would send you Monopoly euros to resize it.

[Ap2000]

[quote name='The☆AEUGNewtype' timestamp='1358876885' post='142287']



You people with your damn low resolution monitors! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />

[/quote]



Bish, I've got 1920x1080 pixels and I filter any signature that is too big (in your case) or too annyoing (certain styles). =P



Kusumi is unbearable no matter what voice she imitates or not. I'd say she never deserved any of the huge amount of exposure she got.

[tsukinobyouin]

I swear the next thing I contribute to this thread will be actually worth something. I want to do a proper translation of that radio show (or at least relevant portions since it's long). That way we have something specific to discuss rather than what seems to be a biased summary.

You don't tell people how the sausage is made.

Best line in the thread. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /weeeh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' />

Of course, now that she comes out and tells the truth, I'm pissed she fucked up Dream Morning Musume.

Can't really buy into that. Most of those girls were already at the end of their careers, DMM wasn't making any waves in the industry, or even in H!P fandom, for that matter (sales were terrible and got almost no promotion,) it was actually kind of embarrassing to some degree, seeing these 30 year old women singing silly Tsunku dance songs. Not that the songs were bad, but it was pretty obvious the girls were past their prime as idols and the music just didn't fit them as a group.

I was under the impression that Petit just meant the group was ruined for her because she liked everyone but Koharu. Not like... in a commercial success sort of way. That said, I totally agree with you and wish DMM had stuck to releasing original material and had called themselves something else entirely. <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... #>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':sad:' />

Arguing with AEUG, reactivate. BUT SERIOUSLY, DUDE, GET A SMALLER SIG. IT'S EATING UP MY SCREEN.

You people with your damn low resolution monitors! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... dammit.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':dammit:' />

I'm confused. Does the forum automatically squish them or something? I don't have anything specifically set up, but it's never looked that big to me even on my older monitor at work.