Idols and Morals and Stuff

We listen to stuff outside of H!P? What?!?

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eri
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by eri »

Ps the idol/ singer divide is not and has never been so cut and dry. They both exist in a long spectrum of "performance work." And I've heard people refer to Lady Gaga as an idol for what it's worth.
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Gerald
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by Gerald »

[quote name='AurA' timestamp='1360117331' post='143776']

I've never heard of the Yakusa controlling the industry. Sounds like wild rumours to me.

[/quote]

Here and here.
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Ap2000
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by Ap2000 »

[quote name='AurA' timestamp='1360117331' post='143776']



I've never heard of the Yakusa controlling the industry. Sounds like wild rumours to me.

[/quote]



Yakuza have their penises in most businesses.

They probably run backdoor-prostitution for some of the minor idols that are easy to influence.
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Farrah
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by Farrah »

[quote name='Ap2000' timestamp='1360160417' post='143795']

[quote name='AurA' timestamp='1360117331' post='143776']

I've never heard of the Yakusa controlling the industry. Sounds like wild rumours to me.

[/quote]



Yakuza have their penises in most businesses.

They probably run backdoor-prostitution for some of the minor idols that are easy to influence.

[/quote]



It's pretty well known that this happens in the visual kei world, with boys in less known bands being pimped out either as hosts or straight up prostitutes by their record companies. There's a pretty big problem with it in Korea, too, with one producer being charged with molestation of his trainees more than once, not to mention the suicide of Jang Jayeon, who killed herself after depression due to being sexually abused and passed around to various entertainment big-shots.



I believe there is truly, indisputably a dark side to the idol industry, most of which we will never hear or see about. The fact is, in an industry that thrives on the distribution of a person as a product, people are going to get taken advantage of, no matter where you are or what country you're in. Entertainment is a dangerous business to get into, period. But the idol industry has such a weird mixture of youth and sexuality that I can't help but imagine things can get pretty dark sometimes. We're talking about an industry where girls like Minegishi Minami have to prance around on stage in school girl uniforms flashing their panties and singing about how they want older men to undress them, but can't have a boyfriend (or rather, get caught having one).



And I think that's an important thing to point out - I wish more people would realize that the love-ban rule is much less a matter of "don't have a boyfriend, full stop, end of story" as it is a matter of "if you are caught having a boyfriend or engaging in sexual activities, you will suffer the consequences and you will suffer for it entirely alone". These idol agencies don't care if their idols date - they only care if they get caught, especially when we're talking about idols that have been in the business for a long time. You gain certain kind of tenure - I'm sure for girls who have only recently joined the company, getting busted with something like this results in immediate cancellation of their contract, but with girls like Miichan, it becomes a grey area of "well, if you make your bed, you're gonna have to lie in it", or if you're lucky enough to be Acchan or Yuko, "well, if you make a mess, we'll have to clean it up". Seriously, don't be naive enough to believe that these companies have fully banned these idols from engaging in sexual activities in their private lives - they don't give a shit as long as it remains private, plenty of idols have come out and pretty much said this, flat out.
Last edited by Farrah on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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sadude
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by sadude »

Very late to the party! <img src='http://mm-bbs.org/public/style_emoticon ... /weeeh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':weeeh:' /> But I read the article on The Verge with great fascination and questioned my own fandom of idol pop. JPope, well said with your posts in this thread.



It's been a slippery slope since the H!P days. When I first started following H!P and idols, I tended to focus on the fun and the music and rooting for (/supporting) my favorites while ignoring the parts I didn't like. But I look back and feel that I was ultimately supporting the bad parts of J-idol pop by consuming it and giving them money. This incident made me think back to the fandom with a little bit of sadness.
Last edited by sadude on Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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kira
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by kira »

I guess I'm late to this too.



I had a discussion with someone else about the "no-dating rule", who told me that the fact that it stands today and is considered standard in the industry is problematic. And I agree. But I think the reason they keep that rule is that in the management's mind, having that rule is an almost guaranteed (not completely though!) way to prevent their artists from getting into a dating scandal which they think would ruin the artist's public image. In order to do that, they have to have some kind of insurance, and that's the risk of losing their job by breaking the contract.



Minegishi's incident brings an interesting angle to this though, because the rule has become more scandalous than the actual relationship, and it's causing the management to backpedal a little. However, unless Japan's government does something, I don't think it'll really affect the way the industry is run right now. Being an idol is no ordinary job. You have to consider the fact that for a lot of these idols, building their "relationship" with the fans comes first. They rely on fans to increase their popularity, and in a group like AKB48, where once every year, that popularity gives them a shot at being the lead of a single, they need those fans to gain traction in the group. The fans further the relationship by buying products from the idols. For some fans (the extreme kind!), if they perceive that someone is interfering with the "relationship", they get upset and may do something drastic as a result. Preventing this from happening is another reason the management justifies the rule.



It's a complicated problem, and not something that can be easily solved. I've seen people arguing that this contract is encroaching on the freedom of the idols. However, they knowingly entered the contract, so if they break it it's something they chose. Also, it's not a right for them to be an idol, it's a privilege. Much like driving, if you break the rules that were set in place in front of you when you earned the privilege to do it, then you lost your privilege to continue. The thing that is stopping these idols from entering a relationship is the loss of their career. They can still choose to enter a relationship. It just means they can't be an idol with their current management anymore. Whether or not they consider that important is entirely up to the idol. Management may try to get them back if they're really popular, but at that point the management doesn't control the idol anymore (unless there is some bizarre stipulation in the contract that allows that).



As for the question of how I can morally support the groups that have to follow this rule, the thing I consider is this:



There would have to be a lot of people to stop buying things in response to an incident like this in order to hurt the management. In other words, AKB48 would have to go from selling a million singles to half that or less. They would have understand that it's because of the rule and not because the artists/idols are unpopular. If anything, I feel like if I were to boycott on my own as an international fan, I wouldn't accomplish anything in that regard. I would, however, be hurting the people who produce the music that I love to listen to. Sure, management is a part of that, but there's also the songwriters, the lyricists, and the singers themselves. I know me buying one single/album is not a lot to support them, but I can't justify not doing that in order to protest something that is usually a non-issue because it has not happened very often in the lifespan of my fandom (6+ years now). When it has, it has not turned out the way Minegishi's incident did.
Last edited by kira on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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yuzuriha
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Re: Idols and Morals and Stuff

Post by yuzuriha »

Well shit, Japan. I have lived there twice but didn't realize this until a friend just pointed it out to me:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_porn ... s_in_Japan
Kaori • Risako 
 Sakura • Kananan •  Sayuki 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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