I feel the spam threads are killing a lot of potential for good discussion, so here, thanks to Henkka, a separate thread for you to discuss:
Morning Musume through the eyes of a female fan
Obviously I can't compare this to my own impressions or feelings, but a lot of it is in line with what came up in my discussions with Berry. At the same time, a lot of it also contradicts what she said.
With at least half the active BBS members being female, I wonder how this relates to your own experiences?
I personally found the following passages very interesting:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.</blockquote><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.</blockquote><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.</blockquote><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.</blockquote><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">When Momusu was falling into obscurity, she (Michishige) alone was appearing on all those TV shows as this “poison-tongued narcissist.” Her being able to do was the result of her working hard on her talking skills. But that kind of character gets you lots and lots of fierce bashing. I don’t think it’s something you would be able to withstand just for a simple wish of wanting to be famous. (...) I think the fact that she was able stand that kind of thing was because she was doing it for her love of the group. “Even if they make me into a bad guy, I’ll do my best for the group.” She was like the heel in pro wrestling. When I think about her great efforts for the sake of the group, I can’t help but cry. And then when Morning Musume was finally starting to gain popularity again as they were appearing on “Shabekuri 007″ this summer, it looked like a little bit of that huge burden she had been carrying had finally been lifted off her shoulders.</blockquote><blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman myself that I can understand not only the feeling of someone thinking “she’s betrayed her fans“, but also “you can’t fight your own feelings“… At the end of the day, I just want them to be happy.</blockquote>
Female fans of Morning Musume
Moderators: testacles_4, Shoujo Q, momoirosaya
Female fans of Morning Musume
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#whereisyui #ゆいちゃん
~breathe your last and fall into my eternal embrace~
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
I definitely don't agree with that fourth quote at all. H!P is made up almost entirely of very conventionally attractive girls. More so than lots of other idol groups I've encountered over the years. She mentions later on that she thinks H!P makes you notice how girls without double eyelids can be pretty too, but not only is there more to being considered attractive than just having a certain kind of eyes, I can recall several times when the girls with single eyelids have used tape or glue. Early on when 2nd gen S/mileage joined, there was actually a segment where they were getting their makeup done and someone was showing Kana how to do it.
I didn't really relate to the earlier writings about her really getting into them because of how cool they were and how awesome the dancing is. I was a fan back when their dancing didn't matter much at all and I think I'd still be a fan even if it was still that way. In fact, I think I actually might like it even more if there was a bigger emphasis on singing than on dancing, but I understand why it's not that way anymore.
And if we're talking about just Morning Musume (because I think it does apply to just about everyone else in H!P), I don't think that this:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Whereas enjoying AKB48 is about “cheering on girls who are in development“, for H!P it’s more like you’re cheering on “professional idols“, right?
</blockquote>
Is true either. I don't know how the other people in the company feel, but judging by a lot of Tsunku's comments in recent auditions, he definitely still thinks that Morning Musume is all about polishing up the diamonds in the rough.
I do think that Tsunku definitely sees them as people, especially after reading that four part interview I posted in the OG thread a few weeks back. But like her, I can't compare it to other groups. I don't really know how their producers see them.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Back when Momusu was first popular I was the same age as them, so it was difficult for me to cheer them on.
</blockquote>
With the exception of Haruna, the members in the group have always been older than me or younger than me, so I never felt like that. I definitely admired the older members in a way I don't the younger ones. I think she's right in that a lot of women who like idols probably like manga too.
I feel the exact opposite of her in regards to what musical style I'd like for them to try next. I don't find young girls singing adult-like songs interesting at all.
As for her member comments, some of it I agreed with and some I didn't. Definitely agreed with everything she said about Sakura. Sakura is the best addition in years.
Oh, and this was actually part of the 2ch comments on it but someone said this:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">5：名無し募集中。。。：2013/11/04(月) 16:15:07.87 ID:0
I’m telling you: all idol groups are gaining female fans lately.</blockquote>
Which I also think is true. I think idols are definitely trendier right now than they used to be and H!P isn't the only one experiencing a boom in female fans.
I didn't really relate to the earlier writings about her really getting into them because of how cool they were and how awesome the dancing is. I was a fan back when their dancing didn't matter much at all and I think I'd still be a fan even if it was still that way. In fact, I think I actually might like it even more if there was a bigger emphasis on singing than on dancing, but I understand why it's not that way anymore.
And if we're talking about just Morning Musume (because I think it does apply to just about everyone else in H!P), I don't think that this:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Whereas enjoying AKB48 is about “cheering on girls who are in development“, for H!P it’s more like you’re cheering on “professional idols“, right?
</blockquote>
Is true either. I don't know how the other people in the company feel, but judging by a lot of Tsunku's comments in recent auditions, he definitely still thinks that Morning Musume is all about polishing up the diamonds in the rough.
I do think that Tsunku definitely sees them as people, especially after reading that four part interview I posted in the OG thread a few weeks back. But like her, I can't compare it to other groups. I don't really know how their producers see them.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
Back when Momusu was first popular I was the same age as them, so it was difficult for me to cheer them on.
</blockquote>
With the exception of Haruna, the members in the group have always been older than me or younger than me, so I never felt like that. I definitely admired the older members in a way I don't the younger ones. I think she's right in that a lot of women who like idols probably like manga too.
I feel the exact opposite of her in regards to what musical style I'd like for them to try next. I don't find young girls singing adult-like songs interesting at all.
As for her member comments, some of it I agreed with and some I didn't. Definitely agreed with everything she said about Sakura. Sakura is the best addition in years.
Oh, and this was actually part of the 2ch comments on it but someone said this:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">5：名無し募集中。。。：2013/11/04(月) 16:15:07.87 ID:0
I’m telling you: all idol groups are gaining female fans lately.</blockquote>
Which I also think is true. I think idols are definitely trendier right now than they used to be and H!P isn't the only one experiencing a boom in female fans.
Last edited by Anderei on Sun Nov 17, 2013 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.
</blockquote>
This made me think of the interviews with Tsunku on Bark's web site, specifically this prompt:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
――― From what you just said, I get the feeling that you are not looking at the girls as a group. Instead, you are looking at their individual characters and minds and trying to produce a future for each girl using those details.
</blockquote>
neshcom wrote in the UFP/OG Spam Thread that Tsunku comes off as fatherly and wants the best for everyone, but is completely willing to let someone sink or swim on their merits. I got the same impression.
I think that Morning Musume went through a stage where everyone blended together, and to me the SEXY BOY PV is the epitome of that era. I also think that the Golden Era was the height of their individualness. The current group is somewhere in between.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.
</blockquote>
When I first discovered Morning Musume as a teenager, I dreamed of being part of the group, but now I don't relate to them at all. My values have changed as an adult and I don't idolize conventionally attractive teenage girls anymore.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.
</blockquote>
It's hypocritical of me to say this but I would be bothered if I found out that my boyfriend is an idol fan. Idol culture is incredibly problematic and I wouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't question that.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.
</blockquote>
I agree with what Andrei said. This is bullshit.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love.
</blockquote>
THIS!!!! I agree wholeheartedly.
I was surprised to read her comments about Kanon. I thought only foreign fans feel that way about her.
(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.
</blockquote>
This made me think of the interviews with Tsunku on Bark's web site, specifically this prompt:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
――― From what you just said, I get the feeling that you are not looking at the girls as a group. Instead, you are looking at their individual characters and minds and trying to produce a future for each girl using those details.
</blockquote>
neshcom wrote in the UFP/OG Spam Thread that Tsunku comes off as fatherly and wants the best for everyone, but is completely willing to let someone sink or swim on their merits. I got the same impression.
I think that Morning Musume went through a stage where everyone blended together, and to me the SEXY BOY PV is the epitome of that era. I also think that the Golden Era was the height of their individualness. The current group is somewhere in between.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.
</blockquote>
When I first discovered Morning Musume as a teenager, I dreamed of being part of the group, but now I don't relate to them at all. My values have changed as an adult and I don't idolize conventionally attractive teenage girls anymore.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.
</blockquote>
It's hypocritical of me to say this but I would be bothered if I found out that my boyfriend is an idol fan. Idol culture is incredibly problematic and I wouldn't want to be with someone who doesn't question that.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.
</blockquote>
I agree with what Andrei said. This is bullshit.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love.
</blockquote>
THIS!!!! I agree wholeheartedly.
I was surprised to read her comments about Kanon. I thought only foreign fans feel that way about her.
Last edited by emily on Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
I'm not really going to respond to each individual quote there, but just to give my own impressions. I am a huge fan because when I watch them perform, as opposed to a lot of other idol groups (but lately Momoclo has surpassed them), they all look like they are genuinely having the time of their LIVES. They WANT to be there performing because it is something they enjoy doing. I personally also enjoy performing more than (almost) anything in the world, so it just seemed like a company where I would have fit in and it wouldn't be along the lines of having the joy taken out of doing something I love. (I am tired...that might not grammatically make sense).
And the way I feel about the girls I like varies. Like Ayumi I'm like wow, she's gorgeous and I wish I could dance like her. Sakura I want to make my little sister. Kaori always seemed like she'd be a great big sister.
But I also agree with Anderei in that it isn't about them being COOL. I couldn't care less about that. It's the effort they put in and the passion and they all seem to genuinely love H!P so much, even if they weren't fans going into it.
And the way I feel about the girls I like varies. Like Ayumi I'm like wow, she's gorgeous and I wish I could dance like her. Sakura I want to make my little sister. Kaori always seemed like she'd be a great big sister.
But I also agree with Anderei in that it isn't about them being COOL. I couldn't care less about that. It's the effort they put in and the passion and they all seem to genuinely love H!P so much, even if they weren't fans going into it.
♥ Kaori • Risako ♥
♥ Sakura • Kananan • Sayuki ♥
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tsukinobyouin
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Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.
</blockquote>
I'd say this is pretty true. I'd also say that the atmosphere is more carefree now because there's less of a sense of rivalry and there aren't any older generations bitter at new gens for stealing their spotlight. In some ways they need a bit more of that to motivate individuals to try and shine, but in other ways it's made them a lot more cohesive as a group. That's something they need now that the focus is on being a dance group with unified precise formations.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.
</blockquote>
I wouldn't say this is quite it for me? Especially not the part about letting go of my past self. I've always had that unattainable fantasy of "wouldn't it be amazing to be an idol" so I guess in some ways I admire the girls as people who actually achieved that dream. But more realistically, I just enjoy the group for what it is. I might admire talents and personality aspects of certain girls, but overall they're entertainers and I enjoy being entertained. I guess that's why it's never really mattered to me what age the girls are in relation to what age I am.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.
</blockquote>
I can't see being jealous of someone for finding a celebrity attractive or having a celebrity crush. I think that's a pretty common thing and not a danger to any relationship. I'm a huge fan of Arashi, and I like to go to their concerts, collect their merchandise, watch their tv shows, and appreciate how great my favorite member looks in certain pictures. If I had a boyfriend who wanted to do that about a female idol group, go for it. I would not, however, be comfortable if the female idol was significantly younger than him or if he displayed any of the creepy/overly obsessive wota behaviors. It's not an issue of jealousy, it's just an issue of that's fucking creepy.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.
</blockquote>
I can't really comment on this, I've never paid any attention to anyone's eyelids. I understand the issue, it's just not something that personally motivates me to like or dislike a girl. I would say that these days other groups probably have more girls who are less conventionally pretty (for reasons other than eyes), but I also think a lot of it comes down to the makeover. Lots of girls come into H!P not looking all that amazing (in my opinion) and suddenly become beautiful because of better styling and makeup. For a female fan who follows the groups closely enough to see everyone pre-makeover, it might be inspiring to see that these girls aren't just born looking fantastic.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When Momusu was falling into obscurity, she (Michishige) alone was appearing on all those TV shows as this “poison-tongued narcissist.” Her being able to do was the result of her working hard on her talking skills. But that kind of character gets you lots and lots of fierce bashing. I don’t think it’s something you would be able to withstand just for a simple wish of wanting to be famous. (...) I think the fact that she was able stand that kind of thing was because she was doing it for her love of the group. “Even if they make me into a bad guy, I’ll do my best for the group.” She was like the heel in pro wrestling. When I think about her great efforts for the sake of the group, I can’t help but cry. And then when Morning Musume was finally starting to gain popularity again as they were appearing on “Shabekuri 007″ this summer, it looked like a little bit of that huge burden she had been carrying had finally been lifted off her shoulders.
</blockquote>
100% agree. This is what made me go from completely hating her to loving her.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman myself that I can understand not only the feeling of someone thinking “she’s betrayed her fans“, but also “you can’t fight your own feelings“… At the end of the day, I just want them to be happy.
</blockquote>
Agree again. I can totally understand both sides - on one hand, they know what they're signing up for and everyone has to make sacrifices for their job. On the other hand, those are some pretty hefty sacrifices and falling in love (or just craving physical affection) is a natural part of life. And when it comes to other scandals, like Kago's smoking, there was a whole lot of shit going on in her life behind closed doors that I can't even imagine.
I agreed with most of her comments about the individual members save Reina. I will never understand what it is about Reina that appeals to people. Her comments about Zukki and Sakura in particular were spot on. I think Zukki is actually a better example of H!P giving girls confidence about their looks than her eyelid example.
Edit:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">But I also agree with Anderei in that it isn't about them being COOL. I couldn't care less about that. It's the effort they put in and the passion and they all seem to genuinely love H!P so much, even if they weren't fans going into it.</blockquote>
I have to agree with this as well. Coolness doesn't make or break anyone for me. This is also what makes MomoClo so enjoyable for me and what makes my favorite male idol groups enjoyable to me - I like to see people who are passionate, having fun, and who can be silly and goofy and make me laugh. Cool performances are enjoyable, but they aren't going to lock me in to any group.
(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.
</blockquote>
I'd say this is pretty true. I'd also say that the atmosphere is more carefree now because there's less of a sense of rivalry and there aren't any older generations bitter at new gens for stealing their spotlight. In some ways they need a bit more of that to motivate individuals to try and shine, but in other ways it's made them a lot more cohesive as a group. That's something they need now that the focus is on being a dance group with unified precise formations.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.
</blockquote>
I wouldn't say this is quite it for me? Especially not the part about letting go of my past self. I've always had that unattainable fantasy of "wouldn't it be amazing to be an idol" so I guess in some ways I admire the girls as people who actually achieved that dream. But more realistically, I just enjoy the group for what it is. I might admire talents and personality aspects of certain girls, but overall they're entertainers and I enjoy being entertained. I guess that's why it's never really mattered to me what age the girls are in relation to what age I am.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.
</blockquote>
I can't see being jealous of someone for finding a celebrity attractive or having a celebrity crush. I think that's a pretty common thing and not a danger to any relationship. I'm a huge fan of Arashi, and I like to go to their concerts, collect their merchandise, watch their tv shows, and appreciate how great my favorite member looks in certain pictures. If I had a boyfriend who wanted to do that about a female idol group, go for it. I would not, however, be comfortable if the female idol was significantly younger than him or if he displayed any of the creepy/overly obsessive wota behaviors. It's not an issue of jealousy, it's just an issue of that's fucking creepy.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.
</blockquote>
I can't really comment on this, I've never paid any attention to anyone's eyelids. I understand the issue, it's just not something that personally motivates me to like or dislike a girl. I would say that these days other groups probably have more girls who are less conventionally pretty (for reasons other than eyes), but I also think a lot of it comes down to the makeover. Lots of girls come into H!P not looking all that amazing (in my opinion) and suddenly become beautiful because of better styling and makeup. For a female fan who follows the groups closely enough to see everyone pre-makeover, it might be inspiring to see that these girls aren't just born looking fantastic.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When Momusu was falling into obscurity, she (Michishige) alone was appearing on all those TV shows as this “poison-tongued narcissist.” Her being able to do was the result of her working hard on her talking skills. But that kind of character gets you lots and lots of fierce bashing. I don’t think it’s something you would be able to withstand just for a simple wish of wanting to be famous. (...) I think the fact that she was able stand that kind of thing was because she was doing it for her love of the group. “Even if they make me into a bad guy, I’ll do my best for the group.” She was like the heel in pro wrestling. When I think about her great efforts for the sake of the group, I can’t help but cry. And then when Morning Musume was finally starting to gain popularity again as they were appearing on “Shabekuri 007″ this summer, it looked like a little bit of that huge burden she had been carrying had finally been lifted off her shoulders.
</blockquote>
100% agree. This is what made me go from completely hating her to loving her.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman myself that I can understand not only the feeling of someone thinking “she’s betrayed her fans“, but also “you can’t fight your own feelings“… At the end of the day, I just want them to be happy.
</blockquote>
Agree again. I can totally understand both sides - on one hand, they know what they're signing up for and everyone has to make sacrifices for their job. On the other hand, those are some pretty hefty sacrifices and falling in love (or just craving physical affection) is a natural part of life. And when it comes to other scandals, like Kago's smoking, there was a whole lot of shit going on in her life behind closed doors that I can't even imagine.
I agreed with most of her comments about the individual members save Reina. I will never understand what it is about Reina that appeals to people. Her comments about Zukki and Sakura in particular were spot on. I think Zukki is actually a better example of H!P giving girls confidence about their looks than her eyelid example.
Edit:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">But I also agree with Anderei in that it isn't about them being COOL. I couldn't care less about that. It's the effort they put in and the passion and they all seem to genuinely love H!P so much, even if they weren't fans going into it.</blockquote>
I have to agree with this as well. Coolness doesn't make or break anyone for me. This is also what makes MomoClo so enjoyable for me and what makes my favorite male idol groups enjoyable to me - I like to see people who are passionate, having fun, and who can be silly and goofy and make me laugh. Cool performances are enjoyable, but they aren't going to lock me in to any group.
Last edited by tsukinobyouin on Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
<p style="text-align:center;">
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Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
Reina wasn't always appealing as a person, but I agree with the writer that she definitely stood out. Her face and voice are pretty distinctive.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
[quote="aine"]
With at least half the active BBS members being female, I wonder how this relates to your own experiences?
[/quote]
Can't we count the active male members in this group on our fingers? We're certainly a lot less than half. Maybe less than a quarter...? After you, me, Al, Ap, Rob and JPope, there's some of the younger kids like AurA, Mugi, MysticForceRed, and Arcobaleno and one of the members whose names start with "N," but I forget which one. Okay, that's more than my ten fingers. Now to take my shoes off and start on the toes...
Anyone else?
(Full Disclosure: I had to keep looking up members' profiles and modifying this post. Definitely more than I thought.)
With at least half the active BBS members being female, I wonder how this relates to your own experiences?
[/quote]
Can't we count the active male members in this group on our fingers? We're certainly a lot less than half. Maybe less than a quarter...? After you, me, Al, Ap, Rob and JPope, there's some of the younger kids like AurA, Mugi, MysticForceRed, and Arcobaleno and one of the members whose names start with "N," but I forget which one. Okay, that's more than my ten fingers. Now to take my shoes off and start on the toes...
Anyone else?
(Full Disclosure: I had to keep looking up members' profiles and modifying this post. Definitely more than I thought.)
Last edited by Madara on Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
I believe the allusive "N" of whom you speak would be neshcom, Madara.
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
I agree with anderei. H!P has beauties. What planet are these girls considered "average" because if that's the case us mere normal people must be fucking trolls.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.
</blockquote>
I get this vibe from the H!P family as well. However, I also feel this vibe from some other idol groups. I don't think this is exclusive to Tsunku, but I do think there is a distinct trend of groups that feel like they are "people" versus "products", and I shy away from the "product" feeling groups.
Aside from Terada's music, the fact that H!P doesn't seem to treat their idols as badly as other labels has kept me a fan for a long time.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.
</blockquote>
This is more complex for me, because I understand and feel the sentiment she has "idols make me forget about my age and I admire them", I also don't think they're living my "dream life". In my teens, I wanted to be an actress more than anything else, so if I were in their industry, I may have started as an idol, but I would have completely abandoned it in a move similar to Akari from Momoiro Clover. (though in her case, she may have become a more successful actress had she stuck with the group longer)
At the heart of it, idols are a different performer than an artist. Artists are more serious, they are more polished, they may have the same sort of "interactions" with fans, but for some reason they seem to lack the "heart and soul" that idols have due to their perfection. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a perfect performer and sometimes I love watching girls that are giving 100%, but may not be perfect despite their efforts.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.
</blockquote>
I wouldn't care if my BF was an idol fan unless he had shit taste in idols. :P The only other thing is if they treaded on the "kimowota" scale and liked idols that were less music and more creepy shit you see on imotou.tv, but I don't think a person like that would be interested in a relationship in the first place.
I don't understand these women that get jealous over celebrities. It's a silly fantasy. Maybe it's due to conservative thinking (i.e. it's sinful to lust for other people) or lack of self confidence?
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.
</blockquote>
I'm not asian, so I don't think things like that apply to me culturally. But, I will note that the girls now are too young for plastic surgery. I think there were a lot of girls in the early days who debuted with single or partial, but once they hit their late teens they got the surgery. Whether or not these girls give into the societal pressures of beauty are another thing, but I wouldn't applaud them for that until they're into their twenties and have done nothing to modify their faces.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman myself that I can understand not only the feeling of someone thinking “she’s betrayed her fans“, but also “you can’t fight your own feelings“… At the end of the day, I just want them to be happy.
</blockquote>
But fans like you aren't doing the $600 fanclub bus tours, buying 10000 copies of the same single, and buying every single bit of merchandise even tangentially related to the group, so scandals for being in love will stay FOREVER. :P (lbr, the real rule is "don't get caught you stupid dummy")
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
(...) to me it feels like the atmosphere among the members is carefree and not strained at all. If you ask me, I think that might be because Tsunku♂ is producing them not as “products” but as “people“, and he sincerely wishes for them all to become happy.
</blockquote>
I get this vibe from the H!P family as well. However, I also feel this vibe from some other idol groups. I don't think this is exclusive to Tsunku, but I do think there is a distinct trend of groups that feel like they are "people" versus "products", and I shy away from the "product" feeling groups.
Aside from Terada's music, the fact that H!P doesn't seem to treat their idols as badly as other labels has kept me a fan for a long time.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
When I’m watching them I think to myself “I would’ve wanted to be that cute when I was in my teens” and when I see them carrying out my “dream life“, it allows me to let go of my past self. So rather than my younger sisters, it’s more of an admiration for them. When I watch them, it’s no longer my 31-year-old self; it feels like I’m back to being the same age as them.
</blockquote>
This is more complex for me, because I understand and feel the sentiment she has "idols make me forget about my age and I admire them", I also don't think they're living my "dream life". In my teens, I wanted to be an actress more than anything else, so if I were in their industry, I may have started as an idol, but I would have completely abandoned it in a move similar to Akari from Momoiro Clover. (though in her case, she may have become a more successful actress had she stuck with the group longer)
At the heart of it, idols are a different performer than an artist. Artists are more serious, they are more polished, they may have the same sort of "interactions" with fans, but for some reason they seem to lack the "heart and soul" that idols have due to their perfection. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a perfect performer and sometimes I love watching girls that are giving 100%, but may not be perfect despite their efforts.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
As a matter of fact, up until my mid-twenties my boyfriend was an idol fan and it made me jealous. But as you get older, it actually becomes quite comforting. I mean, the act of cheering on people is a really positive thing. It’s not something everyone is capable of doing.
</blockquote>
I wouldn't care if my BF was an idol fan unless he had shit taste in idols. :P The only other thing is if they treaded on the "kimowota" scale and liked idols that were less music and more creepy shit you see on imotou.tv, but I don't think a person like that would be interested in a relationship in the first place.
I don't understand these women that get jealous over celebrities. It's a silly fantasy. Maybe it's due to conservative thinking (i.e. it's sinful to lust for other people) or lack of self confidence?
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
For the past ten years or so it’s been popular to go and get your eyes done to make them look bigger, but I think the fact that H!P is now drawing attention to the cuteness of girls with single eyelids or partial double eyelids is really giving a lot of courage to many girls.
</blockquote>
I'm not asian, so I don't think things like that apply to me culturally. But, I will note that the girls now are too young for plastic surgery. I think there were a lot of girls in the early days who debuted with single or partial, but once they hit their late teens they got the surgery. Whether or not these girls give into the societal pressures of beauty are another thing, but I wouldn't applaud them for that until they're into their twenties and have done nothing to modify their faces.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
I actually think any member who doesn’t cause a scandal is someone who must have the willpower of a superwoman! Conversely, I don’t want people to think badly of someone just because they’ve fallen in love. Maybe it’s because I’m a woman myself that I can understand not only the feeling of someone thinking “she’s betrayed her fans“, but also “you can’t fight your own feelings“… At the end of the day, I just want them to be happy.
</blockquote>
But fans like you aren't doing the $600 fanclub bus tours, buying 10000 copies of the same single, and buying every single bit of merchandise even tangentially related to the group, so scandals for being in love will stay FOREVER. :P (lbr, the real rule is "don't get caught you stupid dummy")
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
I mean, I can name plain girls in H!P. But even they don't have any characteristics that would put them outside the general realm of attractiveness to the masses. The only real exception, in my opinion, is Rina. I guess some people would put Kanon in there too, particularly because she's been getting publicity here and there for not having the standard idol body, but face-wise, she's still very pretty. And if she auditioned today, I'm pretty sure she'd never make it to the final round. UFP definitely isn't doing anything groundbreaking as far as looks and image go. If anything, I suspect they're probably more picky about it than a lot of other companies. I think Momoiro Clover and the 48s are groups that would do a much better job at showing young girls that they don't need to be super pretty to be idols.
Last edited by Anderei on Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
I'm a little confused. Did she say that there were a lot of not-so-attractive girls in H!P? I thought she was just talking about how Riho and Ayumi have smaller eyes and they're pretty anyway.
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
She mentions Juice=Juice further down and how she thinks it's great that H!P brings attention to girls without double eyelids because it gives regular girls confidence too. But I mentioned in my first post that all of the girls with single eyelids still often use tape or glue in photoshoots and things like that, which makes it pretty clear which option people still think is more attractive.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Female fans of Morning Musume
[quote="Petit Melon"]
I don't understand these women that get jealous over celebrities. It's a silly fantasy. Maybe it's due to conservative thinking (i.e. it's sinful to lust for other people) or lack of self confidence?
[/quote]
It's the latter. Jealousy is always a result of a lack of self confidence.
I don't understand these women that get jealous over celebrities. It's a silly fantasy. Maybe it's due to conservative thinking (i.e. it's sinful to lust for other people) or lack of self confidence?
[/quote]
It's the latter. Jealousy is always a result of a lack of self confidence.
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