[2016.10.26] Juice=Juice - Dream Road ~Kokoro ga Odoridashiteru~ / KEEP ON Joshou Shikou!! / Ashita Yarou wa Bakayarou

[Anderei]

Too bad the choreo is nowhere near inspired for Keep On. It's so low energy and boring. Maybe it's because of Tomoko but still.

[Farrah]

[quote="JPope"]
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Revangelis" data-cid="199704" data-time="1471686836">
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Upcoming has footage of the girls recording KEEP ON.
 
https://youtu.be/5nZzHDgg2fI?t=16m56s
[/quote]
 
Sayuki is really good. 
 
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</blockquote>
 
She is quickly becoming the star of this group for me.  When they first came out, I thought it would be Tomoko because of her womanly vibe but Sayuki just has a ton of spunk and the talent to back it up.  Kind of reminds me of Chisato.
 
Meanwhile, Karin may as well be living, breathing wallpaper.

[Meikochi]

Funny how different Japan and West fandom are. JJ popularity ranking in Japan : Yuka >>> Karin >> Aarii >>> Tomoko >>> Sayubee (from what I gathered from guys trading).

[Purin-chama]

Sayuki keeps getting prettier too.

[JPope]

I don't understand the Japanese wota's seeming visceral hatred toward Sayuki. She's one of the best singers in all of H!P, she's cute as hell, and has a fun personality. I guess I don't understand much about them, though. They fucking loved them some tin-eared basic bitches, but hate on a genuine talent like Sayuki. If you're not cookie-cutter conventionally cute, the Japanese wota don't want to have anything to do with you.
 
Jpop is wasted on the Japanese.

[Anderei]

She's not considered attractive. And honestly when they debuted, she wasn't in my opinion, not even in an unconventional way. I still don't find her very good looking, and even lots of international fans probably don't.


And honestly jpop idols get a pretty big pass on looks. Even a lot of the girls touted as super photogenic and beautiful aren't exactly future models.

[DonJuan]

Yeah, and once you fall into the "not pretty" hole you're lost. I mean Makoto turned out rather good-looking in her own way yet she probably was the least popular member at her time and in DMM. Despite being more talented than others.


I guess for idols it's better to look weird yet cute than okay or passing.

[JPope]

Wait, which is it:
 
[quote="Anderei"]
And honestly jpop idols get a pretty big pass on looks. Even a lot of the girls touted as super photogenic and beautiful aren't exactly future models.
[/quote]
 
 
[quote="DonJuan"]
Yeah, and once you fall into the "not pretty" hole you're lost.
[/quote]
 
I know she's not considered attractive, because she doesn't have run-of-the-mill, cookie-cutter idol looks. That's apparently what the wota want, which is why I say, Jpop is wasted on the Japanese.

[DonJuan]

I'd say wota make a weird cut here. For example, Konno Asami was super popular but I think she wasn't pretty. She had a nice body though. I do think her somewhat weird face made her stand out though, and it gave her a look of something awkwardly cute.
 
However, if you have a feature that's too awkward or unflattering (for example, Makoto's pointy chin) it's no good. As well as being too plain.
 
Personally, I feel Sayuki might suffer from her debut looks. She was somewhat weird looking but leaning more on the weird than on the cute side, and then she had a really puffy face, also she was somewhat fuller than the other members. I mean granted, she's in a group with girls that fall right into some wota's preferences (especially Akari and Karin, but also Yuka - whom I'd call plain yet pretty enough). Sayuki's doing quite well lately, in my opinion. But at this point most wota already have chosen a favourite and it doesn't look like the group is getting new fans.

[arcobaleno]

[quote="JPope"]
 That's apparently what the wota want, which is why I say, Jpop is wasted on the Japanese.
[/quote]
 
I don't disagree with you, but isn't this a thing with entertainers all over? In South Korea, idols 95% of the time have to have the looks as well as the talent (which does set them apart from Japan where looks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent), and in a lot of Western markets, thinking USA & UK here mainly, not sure of other countries, the idea is the same as Japan's, when it comes to pop: if you have the "look" and perhaps the charisma, as well, all of your lacking musical can be just... glossed over.
 
The idol wota are one of the most finicky and fickle markets, especially, so Japan makes it especially urgent to have the looks > talent. Every wota has their own idea of what makes a cute, pure and entertaining idol, but in general, due to Japan's culture as a whole, the bland, cookie-cutter girls will ALWAYS have the leg up. Especially since H!P is now especially embracing those ideals, whereas before, they were going very much against that grain.
 
Of course, as much as H!P does this, you have to wonder... why add not-really-that-pretty girls with talent (going to throw Danbara under this bus) at all, then?
 
I wish I knew, since it makes no sense to me, either. It's like they're trying to simultaneously hold onto the old H!P that did care about talent more than looks (could you imagine Yasuda Kei getting into a group in this day and age? Lovely voice, but she wasn't extremely cute/pretty to the average wota), as well cater to the idol trends within Japan.

[TicTacAnyone]

[quote="arcobaleno"]
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="199905" data-time="1472421122">
<div>
 That's apparently what the wota want, which is why I say, Jpop is wasted on the Japanese.
[/quote]
 
I don't disagree with you, but isn't this a thing with entertainers all over? In South Korea, idols 95% of the time have to have the looks as well as the talent (which does set them apart from Japan where looks >>>>>>>>>>>>>> talent), and in a lot of Western markets, thinking USA & UK here mainly, not sure of other countries, the idea is the same as Japan's, when it comes to pop: if you have the "look" and perhaps the charisma, as well, all of your lacking musical can be just... glossed over.
 
The idol wota are one of the most finicky and fickle markets, especially, so Japan makes it especially urgent to have the looks > talent. Every wota has their own idea of what makes a cute, pure and entertaining idol, but in general, due to Japan's culture as a whole, the bland, cookie-cutter girls will ALWAYS have the leg up. Especially since H!P is now especially embracing those ideals, whereas before, they were going very much against that grain.
 
Of course, as much as H!P does this, you have to wonder... why add not-really-that-pretty girls with talent (going to throw Danbara under this bus) at all, then?
 
I wish I knew, since it makes no sense to me, either. It's like they're trying to simultaneously hold onto the old H!P that did care about talent more than looks (could you imagine Yasuda Kei getting into a group in this day and age? Lovely voice, but she wasn't extremely cute/pretty to the average wota), as well cater to the idol trends within Japan.
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
This really has been changing... There's a LOT less funky hair colors/styles. I know a lot of that comes with growing up and finding your own style, but I think the last person to really embrace the more "rebel" look were Maimai, Risako, Miyabi, Reina and oddly enough Maro, lol. Ikuta dyed her hair but beyond that, MM itself is pretty subtle; And all of Kobushi still has their black hair after a year. Just seems like a much more "girl next door" look the agency is going for.... I miss the colored hair and crazy nails, lol.

[Anderei]

I think black hair is back in. Even in a crazy idol group like BiSH, nearly all of them have black hair.

[JPope]

[quote="arcobaleno"]
 
 
(could you imagine Yasuda Kei getting into a group in this day and age? Lovely voice, but she wasn't extremely cute/pretty to the average wota)
[/quote]
 
Go watch Yasuda's grad concert. She was popular. It might have had something to do with her legendary appearances on Utaban, but it's not like the wota of that era didn't like her. She wasn't the most popular member, but she she was very well liked.

[DonJuan]

Might go quite a bit off-topic here, but was there any member of the Golden Era that was actually unpopular? I thought that maybe Kei and Yossy might have been the least popular members, but considering how much work they still got after MM they did quite well didn't they?

[Anderei]

I think unpopular is a relative term. Most girls regardless of fanbase-size are probably decently regarded by most of the fandom. Either that or they're ambivalent towards them. Yeah there might be girls most wota don't find attractive but its not like (most) people are campaigning to have them kicked out or bombarding them with hate comments.


In most cases anyway. I don't know about Sayuki's situation but when Angerme's 2nd gen joined lots of people were negative about Rina and Kana's looks and they've acknowledged they were aware of the comments.

[Farrah]

I've said it before but I think all of this is symptomatic of the fact that female idols are a niche market now with very little appeal to the general public, so they have to pander almost exclusively to the "suchandsuch-chan is mai waifu!" crowd.  Even a group as huge as AKB48 only has a couple of girls with any real notoriety outside idol circles.
 
Speaking of them, I really do feel like the standard for female idol's looks has become very strict these days. Sashihara Rino is constantly dragged online both in Japan and internationally for being some kind of hideous monster when she's average at worst.  She became one of AKB's most popular members despite it but only because she made it her image.  "I'm the obnoxious, funny, ugly one!" - this is basically what Kei and Mako did, but it's weird to me for someone that looks like Sasshi to end up in that same category when literally nothing about her sticks out as particularly ugly to me LOL.  I remember when she had her dating / nude photo scandal there were a lot of "Ew, who would want to see Sasshi naked anyway!" comments online.
 
I often find myself wondering if most of the OG H!P girls would even pass an audition these days - I feel like even some of the most popular members would not have much of a following in the current environment.  I get why someone like Karin is popular (pale and conventionally cute with a very moe voice) but it won't change the fact that she bores me to tears.
 
 

[Anderei]

Part of her shtick is that she's open and more or less proud about the fact that she has no talents to her name. She's mediocre and okay with it. Not that most of her senbatsu contemporaries are any better, they're the most complacent group of girls you've ever seen. Most of the girls in the 48 groups worth watching either aren't in AKB or aren't in the singles.


Kei proved she was the real deal every time she got up on stage though. She had the work ethic and talent to match the comedy and I think management recognized it before all the younger girls started joining and they changed up their music style. And I've never thought too poorly of Ogawa as a singer either but that might just be me.


I'm also not big on Karin but you could do far worse as far as H!P goes in terms of front girls.

[JPope]

[quote="Farrah"]
Sashihara Rino is constantly dragged online both in Japan and internationally for being some kind of hideous monster when she's average at worst.  She became one of AKB's most popular members despite it but only because she made it her image.  "I'm the obnoxious, funny, ugly one!" - this is basically what Kei and Mako did, but it's weird to me for someone that looks like Sasshi to end up in that same category when literally nothing about her sticks out as particularly ugly to me LOL.  I remember when she had her dating / nude photo scandal there were a lot of "Ew, who would want to see Sasshi naked anyway!" comments online.
[/quote]
 
If any girl who looked like her were to approach any of the losers who say that shit, they'd be tongue-tied and drooling all over themselves out of abject intimidation. This is the dark side of the anonymity of the internet: every basement dwelling loser with zero real-life social skills fronts as a tough-guy Valentino worthy of holding insanely high standards of beauty. 

[Anderei]

That is probably actually the most flattering photo of her I've ever seen lol.
 
Dream Road live on Ara Ara Kashiko

[arcobaleno]

[quote="JPope"]
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="arcobaleno" data-cid="199909" data-time="1472437331">
<div>
 
 
(could you imagine Yasuda Kei getting into a group in this day and age? Lovely voice, but she wasn't extremely cute/pretty to the average wota)
[/quote]
 
Go watch Yasuda's grad concert. She was popular. It might have had something to do with her legendary appearances on Utaban, but it's not like the wota of that era didn't like her. She wasn't the most popular member, but she she was very well liked.
 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I'm sorry, I don't think I explained myself that clearly in my response, going back and reading it. I know Kei was popular at that time, but my main point/rhetorical question was that if she was in the age range to audition for this next generation of Morning Musume., and had the talent for comedy and singing that she had, do you think that, today, in 2016's MM, she would've gotten in the group? What I'm basing this on is her level of attractiveness, her looks. This, of course, is always a subjective thing, but knowing the kind of girls getting into MM lately, you can get a feel for what H!P is going for now.
 
And regardless of her talents, would they add in her in nowadays, seeing her talent, or would they pass her over, because she's not pretty enough? That was what I meant; I was not disputing her popularity itself, which I know she did have.
 
Of course, as I put in there, my opinion is that they wouldn't, because they seem very looks-focused nowadays, like most idol groups. H!P was not always that way; Kei joined when they were still more of an actual artist-like girl group, and so did most of the old members.

[Anderei]

Her age would probably get her passed over today more than anything. She was 17 when she joined which is considered old for a new girl now. 
 
I think it's worth noting that even back then most of the girls they added were pretty good looking, though. For all we know they did think she was good looking at the time (I think the changes in the overall fashion and styling for idols made her look more unattractive than she is). Yeah, she's got some crazy eyes, but Reina, Mizuki and Maria all have weird eyes too and these are all girls that joined at very different times, and two of them are touted as some of the most beautiful girls in the group. I don't think their standards for looks has changed at all. 

[DonJuan]

I mean a lot of people say Ayumi kind of looks like Kei, and she's said to be one of the prettiest members in the group right now.

[JPope]

Kei wouldn't have a chance because she would have been seen as being way too old to be an idol, which is another thing I hate about current day Jpop. 

[Anderei]

Yeah, the number of girls you'll find debuting over the age of 17 is far and few in any of the idol franchises (H!P,48,Idol Street,Stardust). AKB probably debuts the oldest girls but I think even they have a cutoff age of 20 for auditions and most of the older debuts are only older because they took a long time to be promoted). Majority of the older girls are in the smaller or indie groups and a lot of them usually aren't in their first group.

[JoshuaJSlone]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="DonJuan" data-cid="199906" data-time="1472430818">However, if you have a feature that's too awkward or unflattering (for example, Makoto's pointy chin) it's no good.</blockquote>Speaking only for myself, I'm not sure there's a limit on this. There've only been a few occasions I've been initially surprised to see someone in an idol group based mostly on looks, but then those same people tend to stick in mind more than a hundred more conventional people. Fat chance getting me to remember a single member of Bakusute Sotokanda Icchome other than AD Nagisa. OK, maybe that one who exclusively wore a fake anime head.

[MejraThea]

Not sure if it was originally or not, but if not then they changed the date. 2016/10/26

[Solarblade]

[quote="Solarblade"]
Single was pushed back to 10/26 according to the main site.
[/quote]
 
 
[quote="Thea"]
Not sure if it was originally or not, but if not then they changed the date. 2016/10/26
[/quote]
 
 
It was back a page that I mentioned that because Buono! ended up taking that date.
 
Still don't know why such a delay, but meh...

[MejraThea]

Oh! My bad haha.

[Anderei]

According to someone who attended a fan-event, they're re-shooting the MV for Keep On and doing new choreo for it as well.
 
They're also doing a ton of events, so this single should sell well.

[MejraThea]

That's certainly surprising.