[2016.11.23] Morning Musume '16 - Sexy Cat no Enzetsu / Mukidashi de Mukiatte / Sou Janai

[DonJuan]

They really are. I think two factors might be her somewhat broad face and her puffy eyebags.

[Anderei]

Weren't Itano Tomomi's puffy eyebags one of the reasons people thought she was cute?

[Farrah]

Yeah, Asia for the most part finds eyebags cute.  In Korea they're called "aegyosal" which basically means "cute skin".  I think it's mostly the fact that she has stronger features and is kind of tan - which are both perfectly fine but wota like to pretend they have higher standards than they actually do to seem macho and unattainable.  Basic basement dweller shit.

[rallyleo]

Yeah, I think the Sakura hate is trolling at best. I can't really imagine many people outside of the main fandom finding anything wrong with her looks.

[smtmissin]

I think most Asians, not just people in the fandom, would consider Sakura an average-looking girl. When she put on make up and circle lens, then maybe a bit above average. But tastes are different even among the same demographic so maybe I am wrong. Like, I never found Angela Baby anything but average, but most Asian fans would consider her "gorgeous" and the perfect beauty.
To me, look is one of a reasons I follow an idol. Part of the reason why I started following Country Girls is Nanami. Girl is so pretty, and I love her manner. Sometimes when I get to know the girl I may start to like her look, despite her look not being my type at the beginning. Since Sakura never became my favorite, she has always been the average-looking girl of the group for me.

[Mugi]

Miki, Akane, Haruna O., and Masaki recording Mukidashi.
 
I think Miki did pretty good!  Can I get a version with her english part at the end haha.
 
Also they had Masaki do other parts of the song right(All that deeper stuff at the end of her session)?
 

[Zoe]

Ouch, Miki could not hit those high notes.

[DonJuan]

Akane <3 listening to this makes me believe that one day she'll be a decent singer.

[TicTacAnyone]

Miki has a really nice tone to her voice, imo.
Akane did well, but it feels like she's speaking the lyrics instead of singing them...
 
And to those saying Haa-chin is finally improving; well, it's been over 2 years since they all joined soooo. (Same goes for Akane, really.)
 
I have a Maa-chan bias now, fully... So of course I liked her recording. She just puts so much into everything she does, I think it's admirable. She even said "it's fine if you don't use it, but I'd like to try the harmonies."

[smtmissin]

Maa-chan actually has a very competitive side, and I love it.
Miki is good, except that she can't sing high notes like Maa can.  :P
I used to think Akane will improve but after 2 years I gave up.
Ogata? Well, at least she's easy on the eyes, I guessss? I like her fair skin. Juice=Juice's Sayuki used to have pretty white, porcelain skin, and then she started tanning. Why why why? Only Murotan can look good with tanned skin.

[TicTacAnyone]

MM'16 live on Buzz Rhythm singing Sexy Cat
 
I can't believe I'm saying this, but....
 
ERINNNAAA

[Elpis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4do1jO2oTU
 
Found this video that has the line times each member sings for Sexy Cat. I thought it was pretty interesting because everyone seemed to get a fairly even amount even though the song mainly focuses on Mizuki, Haruka, and Sakura.

[JPope]

[quote="Mugi"]
Miki, Akane, Haruna O., and Masaki recording Mukidashi.
 
I think Miki did pretty good!  Can I get a version with her english part at the end haha.
 
Also they had Masaki do other parts of the song right(All that deeper stuff at the end of her session)?
[/quote]
 
<div>Miki is showing some promise, but holy hell her losing it on those head-voice jumps during the chorus was hilarious. She's def still raw, but at least she's improving appreciably.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ogata is hopeless. I really miss the days where Rika Ishikawa was considered the worst singer in the group. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Haga was better than I was expecting. Not good, but exceeded my expectations.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Maa is disappointing here. Missing so many notes during the chorus tells me they don't practice scales, because that run should be effortless for someone with her experience. It's literally a minor scale. Yes, it's pretty high, but not that high. Her passion is great, but my expectations for her are higher than for those other three.</div>

[JPope]

[quote="Mizura"]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4do1jO2oTU
 
Found this video that has the line times each member sings for Sexy Cat. I thought it was pretty interesting because everyone seemed to get a fairly even amount even though the song mainly focuses on Mizuki, Haruka, and Sakura.
[/quote]
 
This is accomplished by limiting the three primaries -- Oda, Kudo and Fukumura -- to the the choruses and bridge. The verses belong entirely to the rest of the group.

[DonJuan]

[quote="JPope"]
Maa is disappointing here. Missing so many notes during the chorus tells me they don't practice scales, because that run should be effortless for someone with her experience. It's literally a minor scale. Yes, it's pretty high, but not that high. Her passion is great, but my expectations for her are higher than for those other three.
[/quote]
 
Already feared I was the only one who thought that haha. She still is one of the best singers in the group (but we've discussed before that this doesn't mean much right), but from a lead singer - and she's considered the lead for Mukidashi with Sakura - I expect more. For me Miki can become the better singer of the two, if she gets a bit more "feel" into it. 
 
I wonder if and if yes, why they don't do scales. Back then in school I did choir stuff and scales were the last step of warming up nearly everytime. It's not that Masaki has a very limited range either. 

[arcobaleno]

Here's my own opinion on the recording:
 
Nonaka.
I don't think she's improved at all. Even Ogata has gotten more progress than her. She still sounds just as strained, raw (like she's been shouting at a football game for 5 hours), and generally unpleasant like her first recording back on Imasugu Tobikomu Yuuki. Okay, actually, she did lose more of that horrendous squeak, so that's something.
 
Losing her voice so badly on the high notes shows more promise of following Takagi "Screamy" Sayuki's footsteps as Fastest Vocal Nodes Ever more than anything.
 
Anyway, despite that, she's okay at best. She did try...
 
Ogata.
...Which I can't really say for Ogata. I mean... didn't she look so very done? lol. With her lack of talent, I bet recordings are hell for her.
 
I think she's improved by an iota. She's got about 2% more control with her voice now.
 
Past that, I was too busy laughing to think of anything else. I even showed her to my mom, who cringed like no tomorrow.
 
Haga.
Well, personally, I think she, out of her entire generation, actually shows the most promise. I fully admit to not understanding what you guys find so lacking in her voice besides strong emotion and some problems with moose-y on the lower notes. (Like that "Sou yatte kyosei wo hattenno nara"  you can hear in the beginning.)
 
Her tone is very pleasant, she didn't die on the high notes, and she's pretty stable overall. Compared to Nonaka and Ogata who were doing death knells, I think she did a lot better.
 
She's taking her statement of wanting to improve her singing seriously, at least.
 
Satou.
I... actually didn't watch all of hers, so I'm not going to say anything.

[JPope]

I feel like we're not watching the same video, lol!
 
Miki has developed some strength, control, the ability to sing relatively in tune and a bit of soul/personality. She's not great, but she's serviceable and has improved measurably.  Haga, while she has shown some improvement, is still quite stiff and doesn't sing in tune as well as Miki. She consistently feels like she's on the edge of losing it. What's worse, though, is that her voice has zero personality. Haga's voice is not at all pleasant to my ears, certainly not much as Miki's.  Like I said, she was better than I was expecting, but I was expecting complete shit. 
 
 

[arcobaleno]

At this point I just love how much we disagree. But it's fun, I like it.
 
On my part, I do get why people comment on saying she's got strength, control, and personality. I don't fault that she has a bit of sass in her singing; she's kind of like Masaki, she tries to be passionate. It's just that all I hear is reaching for that, reaching for that passion and control. She sounds like she's shout-singing to me, much like Sayuki and Murotan do. It's not the kind of sound I would call true strength that comes from effortless singing like Mikitty or Airi, it's what I perceive as strained.
 
It reminds me a lot of the rock stars of yore who abused the hell out of their voice and now sound like complete crap. 
 
But the biggest core thing is that, with me, I'd rather have a slightly dead singer who is good, technically, because at least she won't have to go through the pain and discomfort that others have when they got so bad they needed nodule surgery. I don't think trying to put your all into singing is worth losing your voice like that. Sayuki is, by far, the worst example of this ever. All I've seen is constant praise of her voice and technique but come on, if the girl is making her throat bleed, HOW in any logical sense or way can you say she's got good control or technique? Being able to scream without running out of breath isn't what I call control, man.
 
But yeah, she had personality. And look where she ended up, focusing solely on that. Putting soul without knowing how your voice works is a recipe for disaster.
 
You can always build that personality up, but you can't rebuild a destroyed voice to be as good as it would've been if they sang properly.

[WonderBuono]

Akane's pitch has improved a tiny bit but her voice is still really irritating to listen to imo.
 
I hate hearing Miki and Masaki strain their voices like that since they are two of my favorites and have such personality and potential... I really don't want to see them ruin it. Still, I love seeing Miki's passion in recording.

[showraniy]

<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
It reminds me a lot of the rock stars of yore who abused the hell out of their voice and now sound like complete crap. 
</blockquote>
</div>
<div> </div>
Whaaat? Rock singers are usually some of the most technically skilled singers in the industry, in my experience. Now, the drugs they tend to abuse the hell out of, though... Those will fuck up a voice like none other.

[arcobaleno]

[quote="showraniy"]
 
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
It reminds me a lot of the rock stars of yore who abused the hell out of their voice and now sound like complete crap. 
</blockquote>
</div>
<div> </div>
Whaaat? Rock singers are usually some of the most technically skilled singers in the industry, in my experience. Now, the drugs they tend to abuse the hell out of, though... Those will fuck up a voice like none other.
 
[/quote]
 
show, I didn't say all rock singers.   I agree most are usually skilled; it's a hard genre to sing in, especially consistently. If you try to sing rock while being hopelessly shitty, you ain't gonna last long, that's for sure...
 
(You know, though, I really want to see Ogata try to sing Gotou's Daite PLEASE GO ON. Wouldn't that be a blast?)
 
Yeah, drugs always ruin a voice (see: Whitney Houston, probably the most tragic case of voice ruination via drugs), but I think, besides being coupled with that, there's a lot of them didn't really sing technically well to begin with. Singing in a high, loud falsetto, even just an extremely forceful voice, or one of those gritty growly ones, as a whole, takes some degree of skill, but I'm extremely doubtful that many of them do it in a healthy way... especially the harder rock that is actual belting and .... "good" screaming or growling-ish. (Also see: Kobushi Factory, at risk for some problems in the future if they continue their growly.)
 
It's waaaay too easy to just go for broke and let loose without paying attention to what your body is saying, and a lot of rock singers did and still do do that. It's the passion > technical that I was talking about. I get why passion is so admired, hey, I like it, too, but you know, I'd rather prefer a passionate singer who can always pour that passion in due to good singing, rather than a passionate singer who blew their voice out because they didn't know how to sing.

[JPope]

[quote="arcobaleno"]
At this point I just love how much we disagree. But it's fun, I like it.
 
On my part, I do get why people comment on saying she's got strength, control, and personality. I don't fault that she has a bit of sass in her singing; she's kind of like Masaki, she tries to be passionate. It's just that all I hear is reaching for that, reaching for that passion and control. She sounds like she's shout-singing to me, much like Sayuki and Murotan do. It's not the kind of sound I would call true strength that comes from effortless singing like Mikitty or Airi, it's what I perceive as strained.
 
It reminds me a lot of the rock stars of yore who abused the hell out of their voice and now sound like complete crap. 
 
But the biggest core thing is that, with me, I'd rather have a slightly dead singer who is good, technically, because at least she won't have to go through the pain and discomfort that others have when they got so bad they needed nodule surgery. I don't think trying to put your all into singing is worth losing your voice like that. Sayuki is, by far, the worst example of this ever. All I've seen is constant praise of her voice and technique but come on, if the girl is making her throat bleed, HOW in any logical sense or way can you say she's got good control or technique? Being able to scream without running out of breath isn't what I call control, man.
 
But yeah, she had personality. And look where she ended up, focusing solely on that. Putting soul without knowing how your voice works is a recipe for disaster.
 
You can always build that personality up, but you can't rebuild a destroyed voice to be as good as it would've been if they sang properly.
[/quote]
 
<div>If you're gonna hold the new school idols to Mikitty standards, I don't know what to tell you. She's arguably the greatest idol of her generation.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'll just say this -- and it might come off as cruel, and maybe it is a little bit -- but I don't listen to singers hoping that they'll give me less than their best so that they can save their voices. I listen to them hoping to be moved, even a little bit, by their performance. I would prefer that these girls get proper training in proper technique so as to get the most out of their voices with minimal damage, but if they don't I'm not going to boycott them. Because ultimately I want to hear the strongest performances with as much feeling and energy as is appropriate for the music. I'll take dangerous and moving over safe and mundane every time. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>For what it's worth, I disagree that Miki's emotion sounds forced or strained. Her voice sometimes sounds strained, but that's just because she's not that strong of a singer. Her emotion comes across as genuine to me, though. I'm not sure how Haga comes of as more effortless than Miki to you, but different strokes, I guess. Her robotic delivery just screams "I'm really not comfortable with what I'm doing at all!," to me, though.</div>

[Farrah]

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
You can always build that personality up, but you can't rebuild a destroyed voice to be as good as it would've been if they sang properly.
</blockquote>
 
I can't help but fundamentally disagree with that to be honest.  I've been in so many lessons and classes with people who can hit all the notes but can't emote worth a flip no matter how hard they try.  Technical can usually be taught because that's what it is - technique, but performance is a born gift imo.  You have to genuinely have a feel for it.  Some people have both, some have one or the other.
 
Personally, I don't think Miki has either one LOL.  She is without a doubt the best in her generation but that's more indicative of how shitty everyone is than how good she is.  She seems dedicated to improving so I consider that a good sign!  But right now she's shouty rather than emotional and raw instead of smooth.  If she can learn to hone it, she may have a serviceable instrument on her hands.
 
Overall, I've given up all hope on having another Reina/Ai/Maki etc in the group.  Note that none of those people are even great singers - they're just great for idols.  H!P has zero interest in choosing talented girls and has instead invested all resources into selling honor student girlfriend fantasies. 

[arcobaleno]

[quote="Farrah"]
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
You can always build that personality up, but you can't rebuild a destroyed voice to be as good as it would've been if they sang properly.
</blockquote>
 
I can't help but fundamentally disagree with that to be honest.  I've been in so many lessons and classes with people who can hit all the notes but can't emote worth a flip no matter how hard they try.  Technical can usually be taught because that's what it is - technique, but performance is a born gift imo.  You have to genuinely have a feel for it.  Some people have both, some have one or the other.
 
[/quote]
 
I don't think you're all that wrong with this; I've been in quite a few cover groups, and it's pretty true. I wouldn't even consider myself a good emoter at all; I used to put focus on that but I'm a horrible singer, technically, and I was ripping my voice apart, so I've just tried to learn technique better so I can channel whatever passion I can muster without killing myself. X.x (That's just my own experience, though.)
 
The thing is, I don't think that performance is totally linked with singing; I think that the performance comes more from a person's confidence and stage presence, which is why I believe that it can be built. If a person is really shy or reserved, they won't be able to emote at all because they're holding back, consciously or not. That is a somewhat ingrained thing; some people are naturally shy, some are naturally confident, but if you really want to own that stage, you can overcome that shyness.
 
I think if you have a good base for singing and just need to break out, you can have both passion/performance and technique. Reiterating, that's why I say it can be built.
 
See, I know it comes off like I think music doesn't need passion to move people... which is not something I agree with; passion is important. But singing is such a complex thing for me, especially having had my own little battle with it. I feel like if it comes down to the core of things, like JPope said in his own post, I'd much rather they'd be safe than go for broke. Why? Because if they really do love singing, they'll be able to do it well in their senior years.
 
Sayuki just depresses me, and I feel like Miki is heading the same way. Sayuki loves singing, and she has so much passion, but her horrible technique has put a big, big roadblock and limitation on her voice that she may not be able to overcome very easily, especially given the horrible vocal lessons that UFP gives the girls. If she takes some on her own time, then she might be able to, but it still rides on that person being a good teacher and especially having experience with people after node surgery.
 
I know Akane has hardly any passion or anything in her singing. But I feel she has the best basis in technique so far. (Not saying she's good or even average, but compared to Jumping Neck Vein!Makino, Dying Cat!Ogata, Raw and Strained!Nonaka, I think she's the best, even if she's Hooty Moose!Haga.) What I want, selfishly and honestly, as an observer, is for her to build up her confidence, break out of her shell, and learn to unleash the passion she has stated she has for singing.
 
It's up to her, entirely, to do it. But I truly believe that if she does that, she'll quickly jump up in the ranks of singing. It is true, flat singing is very boring singing, I'm not denying that. But I think flat singing can be turned into passionate singing when a person learns how to let go of their reservations.
 
Miki doesn't have reservations, and that's good, but like you said, her shouty voice is just not going to do her any favors. If she does the opposite of what I want for Akane -- that is, to learn technique -- then she, as well, will definitely impress me and then I will finally stop ragging on her as a singer. But I can't respect her passion knowing it's going to lead to Sayuki 2.0, myself, and that's just how I feel.
 
(At this point, I think I've just realized a lot of this is myself projecting my own experiences with the passion vs. technique issue. To save my own voice from being irreversibly shot, I sacrificed passion for quite a long time. I'm just now trying to barely start working it back in in a safe, non-harmful way... and it's dumb, but because of that, I feel like it'd be best in general for these girls to follow that path, too. I just don't trust the vocal teachings of UFP.)

[TicTacAnyone]

H!P voice training is a joke... Most of the girls practice/advance in their singing by going to karaoke rooms, which is really sad. An entertainer shouldn't have to try and learn their own techniques. They should have a PROPER team to handle that. I wonder how many more nodule surgeries we need until people both inside and outside H!P realize that what they're doing is dangerous. Idc how minor of a surgery it is, it's surgery. A consistent one for those in H!P. If I was a parent and I saw this happening, I'd be worried for my child. 
 
It may be a bit graphic, but here is a video of a singer's nodule being removed. This is what is happening to these girls.
 
The agency is a joke for singers at this point.

[Anderei]

Sexy Cat performance on Full Chorus at 6:50.
 
I don't understand why this wasn't aired last week during the H!P special but whatever.

[DonJuan]

That's the most obvious off-mode I've ever seen on Masaki.


I liked how Becki kept the talk going.

[TicTacAnyone]

[quote="DonJuan"]
That's the most obvious off-mode I've ever seen on Masaki.
[/quote]
 
Holllyyy shiiiit I'm dying. She was blank the whole time.
 
Wonder if she got scolded beforehand or told not to talk again XD
 
 
You know she definitely got scolded after they got off stage for that face.

[arcobaleno]

You know, I get that this kind of behavior is her character, but putting that aside, I find it unprofessional of her to do this when she's supposed to be lighting the stage up.

[TicTacAnyone]

[quote="arcobaleno"]
You know, I get that this kind of behavior is her character, but putting that aside, I find it unprofessional of her to do this when she's supposed to be lighting the stage up.
[/quote]
 
She seemed fine during "The Vision" that they did afterwards..... hmmmm.
 
I agree, it is really unprofessional of her... But it still makes me laugh, thinking only Maa-chan would do something so bad like that.