Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P on December 10th

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Shoujo Q
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Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P on December 10th

Post by Shoujo Q »

She’s leaving to study dance. Seems like she might stick around but not sure. :tears: :tears:

http://www.helloproject.com/news/15013/

Updated with Graduation Date.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

Man I'm ALL in for girls leaving to grow, but why does it have to be the ones who could have lead MM in the future?!
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by AquaChan »

I’m really starting to get tired with MM, it’s not one of the members that should be graduating 😞
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

At this point I would not be surprised if Akane left before Mizuki/Ikuta/Ayumi, or, god forbid, Miki.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by MejraThea »

Seriously though, Fuku through Oda need to be leaving and making way for the newer girls. MM is stagnating despite new blood, I'd think.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

LMFAO! Of course. The consequences of letting Fuku-pon-ishi hang around forever is that strong members like Kaede decide to peace-out knowing that their path to a greater role in the group is permanently blocked. She'll be 23 in a couple of months, stuck behind not only Fuku-pon-ishi, but 3/4 of the 12th gen, as well. She literally has no future in this group, so this isn't surprising.

People bitch every time a member graduates, but this is why they are necessary. My budding resentment for Fuku, Eri and Ishida continues to grow unabated.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

MejraThea wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:48 pm Seriously though, Fuku through Oda need to be leaving and making way for the newer girls. MM is stagnating despite new blood, I'd think.
Yup. Oda can GTFO, as well.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

And the longer they wait the harder it's going to be! Mizuki is already the lead singer - even more than Sakura to a degree! - one of the lead dancers, the longest serving leader... management focuses basically everything on her.

Of course, if Kaede is serious about dancing then she has to leave the group, because H!P dancing will not get much better than it is right now, even with the dance club. Just like girls would have to leave if they're serious about acting. Up Front can help out a lot with singing, but not every kind of entertainment.

But at the same time... some people have pointed out that Kaede has been in the group for 5 and a half years. Longer than Yuuko, Kei, Goto, Charmy, the twins, Miki, Koharu, Riho, Kanon. And all of those have found a way to contribute to MM's history in a certain way. Kaede was always a good dancer, a decent singer, the tomboy the other girls swooned over. But she was not the dancer. She was not even second line in singing.

That's what makes me angry <_< As with Chii, she could've been the dance leader by now, if it wasn't for certain members to sit on their comfortable positions just because they have nothing better to do with life.

Sorry for being unfair, but I'm bitter.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by MejraThea »

Be bitter, Juan.

You mention some good names that really brought things that lasted less than Kaede has. On the versus, what would you say Fuku has brought? Being the longest running leader now. Did she bring anything but a rocking bod? 🤔 At least Sayumi, being the longest member ever at her grad time, brought guidance to the 9ki10ki11ki when everyone else jumped ship.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

To be fair I've never been the biggest Mizuki fan so... my answer will probably be a bit mean lol.

Mizuki was always pretty meh to me, even long before her becoming leader. She was too shy, her singing was okay but too soft without any punch, and her dancing was decent for the group but never anything that screamed dance to me (though to be fair neither does Ikuta's lol).

At this point, to me she's both the epitome of idol standards of the 2010s and the Achilles' heel of H!P's "if you're popular enough and stick around for enough years you'll make it". And that just sucks lol.

Rant ahead, skip/don't open if you want to see what I think Mizuki brings to MM lol.
Spoiler: [+]
The "perfect idol" of the 2010s: The princess, good enough, not in your face girl. You don't need character as long as you're cute. The fact that Mizuki is both a decent singer AND dancer basically catapulted her into idol heaven.

H!P's way of "if you ride it out we make you big": There's a reason why Takahashi got the "have you thought about graduating?"-talk. There's a reason why Dawa left Anju. Generally speaking, if you stay and have a decent following you can get up there in H!P. But this way is clogged for MM because we have members that have been in the group for 11 years with no intention to go.

Worst example is 12th gen. They've been around for as long as Country Girls, Anju 3rd gen, Kobushi AND Tsubaki Factory. 2 of these groups don't even exist anymore. Rikako is undeniably a big factor of Anju, Rei has become an incredible asset to Juice and while I don't really like the OG Tsubaki girls as individual members (except for Kishimon) the group in itself works. 12th gen... they grew, definitely. And that's the point: I'm sure Miki could take over, but she's not even been sub-leader. Maria could take over. Hell, despite Akane being not popular nor that much of a performer, even she could take over! But they don't get the chance. Rikako has a strong character of course, but she grew after Maro, Meimi, her gen-mates Muro and Aiai and once again when Dawa, Kana and Rina graduated. Because she's now the 2nd longest serving Anju member of the current line-up. Kawamuu might be sub-leader, but that time alone should give you something to think about. You're basically 2nd in line. Miki, however, is 5th in line - she probably won't get any taste of responsibility until 2024 IF we get a mass graduation in 2024 of the remaining senpai.
Uhm, ok, about what Mizuki brings to the group... it feels weird to write about it since I don't really consider these things "good".

- She is certainly a role model to the KSS. An egg that became the leader of both the flagship group and H!P? Personally I don't really like this point since Dawa did it before lol (except for becoming MM leader ofc).
- She stands for the idea that the girls joining H!P do so out of love for the company, not so much to become famous. Once again, I think this is a bad point because in general there's nothing bad about wanting to join to become famous, and several former members have done so (Goto, Tanaka, Koharu, most probably). In fact I think girls with an agenda have more drive and try harder :ph34r:
- The way she leads Morning Musume is certainly something. It's strict, it's hierarchical. She does this out of respect for the group. Once again... I think that's bad.

...in fact, I think Mizuki stands for a lot of things that I do not like about modern H!P. Being average, having no drive, being held back by "respecting the past". She's basically the company's poster girl. But as long as they're successful they're gonna push it this way.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

How many of the 15th gen will be 20+ by the time Fuku-pon graduate? I'm setting the over/under at 1.5 :lol:
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

I seem to have upset some people on Twitter.

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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

I just saw the replies, but then I saw the quote retweets :lol:

Love how they mostly miss your point, too. Ayumi and Ikuta might not get many lines, but they're still sub-leaders, the go-to people to talk to in the rare occasions of MM on TV...

And the fact that the younger girls rarely push themselves over them since MM forces the hierarchy so much. Reina tried, but it only got her so far. Rio has ambitions and management on her side (as well as fans and the talent). I don't know about Mei's ambitions but she definitely gets the support.

When people say "Rio/Mei vs. Ikuta/Ayumi" then I'd say mgmt actually tries to build up the new generation because the old one is on its way out. 12th-14th gen, however, are the lost generations - due to 9th-11th sticking around.

Also... Ayumi might not get much nowadays but that's because she's WAY over her peak lol. Girl hasn't grown in years. I remember how she was pushed as Riho's rival, as the actress next to Duu, all of her local TV stuff - but you can only get so far in MM with a limited voice when they focus on performance lol.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

Ayumi gets plenty of spotlight in concerts, but the point isn't that Ayu and Eri are front-line center girls, the point is that every line they do get is one that the 12-16s don't get. And Fuku and Oda are front line center girls.

Starting with the 12th gen, MM has been babying their n00bs for way too long. I remember the 5th and 6th gens being called out on Haro-Moni for not pushing their personalities or talking enough. 9-11kis had to step up, because most of their seniors left within a couple years of them joining. But the 12kis took forever to develop, and I wonder if it's because the rest of the group was still relatively young and hungry. The 9kis were not yet four years in to there runs, and the 10kis had just hit the three-year mark when the 12kis joined. In hindsight, adding four raw n00bs to that group was almost cruel, and set them up for short-term failure. The group was already a fucking snake-pit of young idols vying for exposure with no seasoned vet to sort of calm the waters -- like a Kei or Kaori type. The closest to that was probably Zukki or Harunan, but it's not like they weren't young bucks battling for exposure, either.

And lest anyone think I'm castigating any of the 9-11kis for looking out for themselves, I'm not. But the situation they were dropped into -- especially the 10s -- was much more ready-made to establish themselves quickly. Within a couple of years, all but one of their seniors would leave, and the one who remained was not a lead singer. The 12-13kis walked into a group of idols in their primes who were already established, and roughly the same age as each other, meaning 12-13kis were all basically fighting over 9-11kis' crumbs.

The more I think about it, this situation is in large part due to so many large generations being added in such a short window of time. Eight girls in nine months is wild, and with all of them being so close in age it's not a shock that several would remain so long together. And if Maa didn't have IBS, we'd be talking about five 9-11kis clogging the lane for everyone else. Wheee!

Anyway, speaking of clogged, my notifications are a mess, and I'll probably go through them later tonight. I've been responding to some of the more rational disagreements. My blog post on this has gotten more traffic than just about any outside of the one from when Riho joined Babymetal, lol. That one still gets views to this day.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

DonJuan wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:25 am When people say "Rio/Mei vs. Ikuta/Ayumi" then I'd say mgmt actually tries to build up the new generation because the old one is on its way out. 12th-14th gen, however, are the lost generations - due to 9th-11th sticking around.
I mean, there was a time when management would sort this out on their own. "Have you thought about what you're going to do after you graduate? No? You should probably give that some thought soon."
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by Shoujo Q »

I think UF shot themselves in the foot the moment they dumped the elder girls out and then decided to make multigenerational groups the norm in 95% of H!P. Now they can stick girls anywhere they want and make new groups instead of forcing out girls. They are just starting to establish a post h!p life with m-line but it feels a little late.

Honestly I’m not sure what’s going on in Morning and I’m not sure UF knows what it wants to do with the group anymore. They lost their Tsunku touch.

As much as I love Sakura, I’m ready for her to move on. Girl needs a life break.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

JPope wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:01 pm I mean, there was a time when management would sort this out on their own. "Have you thought about what you're going to do after you graduate? No? You should probably give that some thought soon."
This...
Shoujo Q wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 4:11 pm I think UF shot themselves in the foot the moment they dumped the elder girls out and then decided to make multigenerational groups the norm in 95% of H!P. Now they can stick girls anywhere they want and make new groups instead of forcing out girls.
... and this, both. On top of girls who simply have no ambition to go elsewhere in their life. I mean I'm always sad when it's girls that have not yet reached their full potential in their groups (and Anju has had a BIG case of this with its latest graduations Muro to Kassa), but you can see that there's also girls who are very comfortable in their positions. But at the same time... Takechan, Uemuu and, when she was still there, Kanatomo, didn't bother me nearly as much. I guess it's because none of them were ever the groups "aces" and the generally more equally devided spotlight in their groups.

I've gotten in quite a big discussion on the discord server about how Kaede does, however, have so much solo stuff going on for her own, compared to Mizuki or Sakura who have nothing aside from Morning. When I said "but what about Kaede in MM? It doesn't feel like she does this as "Morning Musume's Kaga Kaede"", they've mentioned - rightfully so - that she only got them through the group and will probably never seen as more than "Morning Musume's Kaga Kaede", just as much as Riho is still announced as an MM OG. Once again we had a discussion about how much we, as oversea fans, actually see of the group, but I never understand why we can't complain about actual performances when this is what brings the group most attention lol.
Kaga Onsen is nice, her being in the dance club is nice. But Kaga in the group is... nothing but background fodder, and that's a damn shame considering her talents.


I do like your explanation of the post-Sayu situation in the group, JPope. A lot of girls have mentioned that coming into the group is extremely overwhelming and not fun at all for the first year or two, so looking back I might have been really harsh with 12th gen when I said they didn't push themselves hard enough. The whole 2015/16 situation was a wild mess with a bunch of teenagers trying to play business, Riho leaving the group and having a rather non-leader like leader (no offense to Mizuki though, but she certainly is no Yuuko).
Once again, where was management? <_<

From the girls' point of view it absolutely makes sense to stay. If Up Front operates as a traditional Japanese business your paycheck grows over the years, so they might have a decent income even without doing solo stuff. And what's there after Morning? Since none of them aside from Ikuta with her business have anything else to do, graduating is only a big downstep. At this point I hope some of them fall in love and marry, because that seems like the only way out for them (and I HATE the no-dating rule). They could get Sakura a somewhat decent solo career on the level of Karin's... (she was never as crazy popular as Karin or Airi though; on the other hand she has better chances than Risamaru). Ayumi could still go into stageplay acting, like Gaki did (I'd also say Ai but it seems like Ai quickly dropped acting for fashion lol).

But Mizuki?
There's absolutely nothing Mizuki has build up for herself. Except for her legacy in Morning Musume.
Maybe become a soloist (like the path they had in plan for Tomoko... but at least Tomoko had songs and a concert...). Probably become an OG - doing her own little thing like Sayu and Reina? (She's missing the character for that though.)

So yeah, I guess at this point we WILL see Mizuki stay in the group for many more years, probably longer than the rest of 12th and 13th gen.

Also, adding to the "as an overseas fan it's hard to see what the members are doing outside of performances": Apparently Mizuki's and Ikuta's instagram profiles were flooded with comments about how they won't graduate and leave their kohai in the dust. In Japanese, mind you. So this is certainly not an overseas vs. domestic fan problem.
Then again, Kaede is quite popular, probably among the top 3-5 members of the group, of course there will be angry fans.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by MejraThea »

JPope wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 7:36 pm I seem to have upset some people on Twitter.
It's ridiculous how misunderstood you are lol, how everyone's taking it like you're personally attacking the members, when really your comment would be a reflection of management more than the individuals.
JPope wrote: Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:58 pm My blog post on this has gotten more traffic than just about any outside of the one from when Riho joined Babymetal, lol. That one still gets views to this day.
A+ title for the Kaede article!
DonJuan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:13 am "but what about Kaede in MM? It doesn't feel like she does this as "Morning Musume's Kaga Kaede"", they've mentioned - rightfully so - that she only got them through the group and will probably never seen as more than "Morning Musume's Kaga Kaede", just as much as Riho is still announced as an MM OG.
Isn't this pretty much the rule for any of the OG? The biggest thing they ever did was MM, so that's how they're announced. Genuine question, not aware of any outliers.
DonJuan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:13 am They could get Sakura a somewhat decent solo career on the level of Karin's... (she was never as crazy popular as Karin or Airi though; on the other hand she has better chances than Risamaru).
I think this would be a wonderful idea, she'd definitely manage it. Her vocals deserve solo ballads. Plus, she can sell a certain maturity that Risa or Karin can't. Sophistication, even. If she did it right.
DonJuan wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 2:13 am But Mizuki?
There's absolutely nothing Mizuki has build up for herself. Except for her legacy in Morning Musume.
Maybe become a soloist (like the path they had in plan for Tomoko... but at least Tomoko had songs and a concert...). Probably become an OG - doing her own little thing like Sayu and Reina? (She's missing the character for that though.)
I always expected she would graduate and go to AV. No joke.

My god, I just realized Mizuki is already 25. Ikuta and Ishida turned 25 this year, but Mizuki is turning 26 next month. That Christmas Cake rule is going to start coming into effect. For reference, Ai graduated 16 days after turning 25.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by DonJuan »

MejraThea wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:31 am Isn't this pretty much the rule for any of the OG? The biggest thing they ever did was MM, so that's how they're announced. Genuine question, not aware of any outliers.
Yeah, that's definitely the case. Even for Fukuda Asuka or Ichii Sayaka.
To me though I feel like Kaga doesn't really feel like she did anything for MM. Or rather, as a part of MM. She got her solo stuff through the group of course, same with the dance club, but her role in MM is just so effing small.

Also, lol at the AV route. After her first few PBs it didn't seem that unlikely...
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by JPope »

MejraThea wrote: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:31 am A+ title for the Kaede article!
Thanks! My favorite is still the one for Karin's grad announcement: Grape Leaves. :lol:

I think you guys are on-point wrt to the post MM opportunities for the 9-11kis. I think Fuku could do well with mid-level modeling -- think department store or online catalog stuff -- or even the Ami Tokito path of soft-core gravure, lol. Actually, I think UF would step in and offer her some position or sinecure to avoid the PR disaster of the longest serving leader of their flagship idol group getting anywhere near the adult entertainment world. Full-on AV would be hilarious for nothing more than the Twitter freak-out, though. :lol: My guess is she'll join M-line club and get sporadic releases ala Risamaru.

Eri should be able to find work in variety or even sports variety. She seems to be fairly quick on her feet in such situations, and her golf show has given her a chance to expand her chops outside of the usual idol settings.

Ayumi is interesting, because I don't know what entertainment footprint she has outside of H!P. She's another who seems well suited to variety, although the opportunities for that are limited and crowded with others who are well suited for it. Musical theater is an interesting possibility, and it's one I hadn't thought about until brought up here. She's not a strong enough singer to go solo, although certainly strong enough for M-line. I'm not sure how big they want M-line to become, though. M-line Dance Team, anyone? :danceman:

A solo career seems like the obvious path for Sakura, but I don't think she has the personality or the voice for it. She's a great singer -- for an idol. Sakura is like 90% technique and 10% feeling, which works well in an idol group where even a lead singer is carrying at most 30% of the load, but not so much when it's just you. She has moments where a bit of soul comes through, but those are the exception IMO. No joke, I could list a dozen current H!P idols who don't have half of Sakura's technique that I'd rather hear a solo from. She's another, to me, that has M-line written all over her.
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P at end of Autumn Tour.

Post by Solitudity »

I'm so sad! :(
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P on December 10th

Post by Shoujo Q »

Another Budokan graduation.

Kaga's last day will be on December 10th.

Now if they could just squeeze a single in on the first week of December? That'd be SWELL!

(Even better if I could finally get my long awaited Christmas song.)
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Re: Kaga Kaede to graduate Morning Musume and H!P on December 10th

Post by DonJuan »

Christmas song with Kaede dressing up as Santa and the members waving her goodbye as she rides her sleigh into the christmas sky.
Would be funny :lol:
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