Some OGs, even 1st gen, had some rather flat vocals. Especially Natsumi back in the day. I really like listening to her nowadays, but around Furusato? Nah. However, we also had singers like Asuka, Aya, Kei, Yuuko...
Honestly, it's hard for me to follow Morning Musume right now. I listened to the new songs and I don't like them. They aren't bad at all, it's just 1. they're not my kind of music and 2. I don't think they fit the girls. They're cool and mature in a very "in your face" style which I can only see with Ayumi and Erina, maybe Kaede. Mizuki and Haruna are too soft, Masaki can "play" the cool type of person but is more energetic (and is not even in this single), Duu can be cool but more in a subtle way, Sakura just screams "nice girl", 12th gen is still too awkward (and even if they weren't, Maria is the cutie, Ogata is like freshly fallen snow but in no way "in your face", Akane is adorable and Miki is just way too much "only sane person"), and Yoko is way too precious and loveable.
The songs are somewhat Platinum Era, and yeah we had some "not so cool" characters then too, but the majority could pull it off. No matter that you had manscream Ai, uso Gaki, actual alien Eri or winky Reina. When they did Resonant Blue I thought "yeah that works". Of course it could be only me who thinks current MM is not that cool... but I really don't feel it. Of course I understand that a group that mostly consists of girls aged 17 and older wouldn't want PPU stuff, but you can be interesting without trying too hard.
Then there's the fact that I wouldn't care if half the group graduated next week. Actually, the only ones I'd really miss right now would be Yoko, Ogata and surprisingly Miki, whom I am rather indifferent to. 9th and 10th gen have reached their prime and are over it. Sakura too. I wouldn't mind Maria or Akane in the group, but I don't find them that exciting (despite Akane being my 2nd favourite haha). I'm cool with Kaede and want to see if she can prove herself after waiting for so long, but... caring is too strong a word.
(Don't get me wrong, if Masaki had to graduate due to her back I'd still be pretty sad because if girls don't graduate on their own behalf that's always tragic to me.)
The Morning Misoshiro thing fired me up a bit, paired with Yoko's cuteness. However, the previews of the new songs pulled me back. Yeah, more dead stares on CD covers and in MVs.
I'm way too faithful to actually leave, especially because I'd stick around for ANGERME and Kobushi (and just... to check on things), and I know this kind of talk comes up every few months - sorry about that! - but MM is just so... unexciting. The group has been like that for more than two years actually, to me at least. The worst thing is that 90% (if not more) of their stuff atm is performing, but I don't want to watch their performances because of their bad vocals.
Alright, that was a lot of crying out loud, I'll go back to more serious posts now.
Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Moderators: testacles_4, Shoujo Q, momoirosaya
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Last edited by DonJuan on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
I kind of feel the same way as you about the girls. The girls could all mass graduate and I wouldn't be that upset except for Auumi, Miki, Kaede, and Reina were included.
Although I tend to like the radio rips of the songs but not the actual MVs. Stuff like Morning Misoshiro actually made me like the group again and it's probably the direction they could go in that sort of works.
The group feels too stagnant, and I know we've had a couple of graduations recently but it's still just not enough.
Although I tend to like the radio rips of the songs but not the actual MVs. Stuff like Morning Misoshiro actually made me like the group again and it's probably the direction they could go in that sort of works.
The group feels too stagnant, and I know we've had a couple of graduations recently but it's still just not enough.
Formerly Mizura
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="DonJuan"]
I'm way too faithful to actually leave, especially because I'd stick around for ANGERME and Kobushi (and just... to check on things), and I know this kind of talk comes up every few months - sorry about that! - but MM is just so... unexciting. The group has been like that for more than two years actually, to me at least. The worst thing is that 90% (if not more) of their stuff atm is performing, but I don't want to watch their performances because of their bad vocals.
[/quote]
I stuck with it for Riho and loved her in it, but same. I think it stopped being exciting by Tiki Bun, or a little before, because that was when the things changed and they just became more complacent. They had that whole "the CURRENT Musume" thing going and then when it was time for Sayu to leave, it was basically dropped. Despite keeping their sales at about the same (up until the new rule), they've basically sunk into a plateau like before.
I'm way too faithful to actually leave, especially because I'd stick around for ANGERME and Kobushi (and just... to check on things), and I know this kind of talk comes up every few months - sorry about that! - but MM is just so... unexciting. The group has been like that for more than two years actually, to me at least. The worst thing is that 90% (if not more) of their stuff atm is performing, but I don't want to watch their performances because of their bad vocals.
[/quote]
I stuck with it for Riho and loved her in it, but same. I think it stopped being exciting by Tiki Bun, or a little before, because that was when the things changed and they just became more complacent. They had that whole "the CURRENT Musume" thing going and then when it was time for Sayu to leave, it was basically dropped. Despite keeping their sales at about the same (up until the new rule), they've basically sunk into a plateau like before.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
In part, it sort of feels like UFP has stopped putting as much effort into them because they know that they'll sell the best out of any H!P group currently. And while they have sold less than they did a couple of years ago, they're still selling despite the fairly boring songs, stagnant lineup, and mediocre vocals. At least at other idol communities, (such as H!O or Tumblr) I still see new fans flock to MM for some reason and in some cases pay the other groups no attention. (I was the same way when I discovered MM five years ago, but I learned eventually), I'm guess it lets them put more effort into the other groups, and makes them sell more while still maintaining the minimum amount required for MM to maintain their flagship group status.
I'm just theorizing at this point. I also look like such an anti fan right now.
I'm just theorizing at this point. I also look like such an anti fan right now.
Formerly Mizura
-
TicTacAnyone
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 am
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Mizura"]
I kind of feel the same way as you about the girls. The girls could all mass graduate and I wouldn't be that upset except for Auumi, Miki, Kaede, and Reina were included.
Although I tend to like the radio rips of the songs but not the actual MVs. Stuff like Morning Misoshiro actually made me like the group again and it's probably the direction they could go in that sort of works.
The group feels too stagnant, and I know we've had a couple of graduations recently but it's still just not enough.
[/quote]
For me, even Ayumi has already hit her peak. At least if we're speaking personality-wise... I used to see AMVs and funny compilations of her all the time--not to mention "Daaishi feeling"-- but ever since she's been pushing for a mature feel she has lost a lot of spark for me. Sure she's a great dancer, but I wouldn't miss her voice, MC or deadstare eyes.
As much as I like Mizuki and I think she's a solid member, 9ki could graduate together and it wouldn't phase me. Same with all of 10ki sans Masaki, but that's a bias thing. Though she also seems to be generally popular with wota, so I would see that hurting the group (not that Mizuki isn't popular.) Oda... I'd miss her vocals and performance level (her dancing and expressions are really good) but I wouldn't miss her quiet personality. 12ki who? Oh you mean Mariaki? and 13ki... I don't know them enough.
Overall, I agree. MM could get a complete overhaul and I'd only miss a few people, same as you guys. Though I'd feel bad on the whole scale of everyone being so medicore they needed to be replaced. MM concerts have been good, but I contribute a large amount of that to camerawork, costume, and amazing sets and lighting and formations...... Not necessarily to the girls. The last single I bought was Tsumetai... And sure that was only "2 singles ago," but it was also a little over a year ago now.
I kind of feel the same way as you about the girls. The girls could all mass graduate and I wouldn't be that upset except for Auumi, Miki, Kaede, and Reina were included.
Although I tend to like the radio rips of the songs but not the actual MVs. Stuff like Morning Misoshiro actually made me like the group again and it's probably the direction they could go in that sort of works.
The group feels too stagnant, and I know we've had a couple of graduations recently but it's still just not enough.
[/quote]
For me, even Ayumi has already hit her peak. At least if we're speaking personality-wise... I used to see AMVs and funny compilations of her all the time--not to mention "Daaishi feeling"-- but ever since she's been pushing for a mature feel she has lost a lot of spark for me. Sure she's a great dancer, but I wouldn't miss her voice, MC or deadstare eyes.
As much as I like Mizuki and I think she's a solid member, 9ki could graduate together and it wouldn't phase me. Same with all of 10ki sans Masaki, but that's a bias thing. Though she also seems to be generally popular with wota, so I would see that hurting the group (not that Mizuki isn't popular.) Oda... I'd miss her vocals and performance level (her dancing and expressions are really good) but I wouldn't miss her quiet personality. 12ki who? Oh you mean Mariaki? and 13ki... I don't know them enough.
Overall, I agree. MM could get a complete overhaul and I'd only miss a few people, same as you guys. Though I'd feel bad on the whole scale of everyone being so medicore they needed to be replaced. MM concerts have been good, but I contribute a large amount of that to camerawork, costume, and amazing sets and lighting and formations...... Not necessarily to the girls. The last single I bought was Tsumetai... And sure that was only "2 singles ago," but it was also a little over a year ago now.
Last edited by TicTacAnyone on Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
Last edited by Derby on Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hey
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
<div>Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Up until the 8th gen, each generation had at least one stand out voice (good or bad) that helped define the group: Abe-Nakazawa, Yaguchi, Goto, Kago-Ishikawa, Takahashi-Niigaki, Fujimoto-Tanaka, Koharu. Then Riho. Who is the "voice" of post-Riho MM? Zukki, Masaki and Duu never really put their imprint on the group in the way those others did. Mizuki, despite her reliability, is the definition of "ordinary". </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What we're left with is a group of girls with varying degrees of talent (mostly low) who all sound kind of similar, or at least similar enough as to not really stand out from the pack. They could outright kill this group in toto, and while I'd feel some nostalgic sadness, it would only last until the next ANGERME or Kobushi release. I really haven't had this much ambivalence toward MM since the later half of the Platinum Era.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Up until the 8th gen, each generation had at least one stand out voice (good or bad) that helped define the group: Abe-Nakazawa, Yaguchi, Goto, Kago-Ishikawa, Takahashi-Niigaki, Fujimoto-Tanaka, Koharu. Then Riho. Who is the "voice" of post-Riho MM? Zukki, Masaki and Duu never really put their imprint on the group in the way those others did. Mizuki, despite her reliability, is the definition of "ordinary". </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What we're left with is a group of girls with varying degrees of talent (mostly low) who all sound kind of similar, or at least similar enough as to not really stand out from the pack. They could outright kill this group in toto, and while I'd feel some nostalgic sadness, it would only last until the next ANGERME or Kobushi release. I really haven't had this much ambivalence toward MM since the later half of the Platinum Era.</div>
Last edited by JPope on Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
-
TicTacAnyone
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 am
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Derby"]
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
[/quote]
I think what would be a worse loss than the mass of members, for me, would be the history/structure of MM. MM is built on years of generations coming and going, and for the older gens to tutor the younger gens... Beyond just stage and recording things, but for personality training along with TV. Though that's sort of moot now. But MM is supposed to have a structure of seniors keeping everyone in line, and that would be lost.
And truthfully it also matters on who you replace them with. If you just bring in more bleh then yes, I'm going to say "this doesn't work either." But if you (BRING BACK TSUNKU FOR AUDITIONS OR LOOK TO GOOD KSS [Not talking against Kaede here, just saying don't waste good potential]) get the right girls in there the group would be so different. But you couldn't call that group Morning Musume anymore.
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
[/quote]
I think what would be a worse loss than the mass of members, for me, would be the history/structure of MM. MM is built on years of generations coming and going, and for the older gens to tutor the younger gens... Beyond just stage and recording things, but for personality training along with TV. Though that's sort of moot now. But MM is supposed to have a structure of seniors keeping everyone in line, and that would be lost.
And truthfully it also matters on who you replace them with. If you just bring in more bleh then yes, I'm going to say "this doesn't work either." But if you (BRING BACK TSUNKU FOR AUDITIONS OR LOOK TO GOOD KSS [Not talking against Kaede here, just saying don't waste good potential]) get the right girls in there the group would be so different. But you couldn't call that group Morning Musume anymore.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Derby"]
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
[/quote]
Brand new girls doesn't fix MM's fundamental problems. It's not like the new lineup would be the all stars everyone wants the flagship group to be made up of.
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
[/quote]
Brand new girls doesn't fix MM's fundamental problems. It's not like the new lineup would be the all stars everyone wants the flagship group to be made up of.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Anderei"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Derby" data-cid="205140" data-time="1487138696">
<div>
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
[/quote]
Brand new girls doesn't fix MM's fundamental problems. It's not like the new lineup would be the all stars everyone wants the flagship group to be made up of.
</div>
</blockquote>
Exactly. The generational continuum and history that TicTac mentions is also important. If you're just going to blow it up and keep the 13th, might as well just be done with MM altogether and give the new group a new name.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Derby" data-cid="205140" data-time="1487138696">
<div>
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
[/quote]
Brand new girls doesn't fix MM's fundamental problems. It's not like the new lineup would be the all stars everyone wants the flagship group to be made up of.
</div>
</blockquote>
Exactly. The generational continuum and history that TicTac mentions is also important. If you're just going to blow it up and keep the 13th, might as well just be done with MM altogether and give the new group a new name.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Ogata Haruna 18th Birthday Event at Yamano Hall 2/15/17
Events 1 and 2 had identical setlists
1. Shooting Star (S/mileage/Angerme)
2. Namida ga Tomaranai Houkago (Morning Musume)
3. Ganbaranakute mo Ee Nen de!! (S/mileage/Angerme)
4. Yuke! Genkikun (C-ute)
It's very fitting to me that she sang the Konno song.
Events 1 and 2 had identical setlists
1. Shooting Star (S/mileage/Angerme)
2. Namida ga Tomaranai Houkago (Morning Musume)
3. Ganbaranakute mo Ee Nen de!! (S/mileage/Angerme)
4. Yuke! Genkikun (C-ute)
It's very fitting to me that she sang the Konno song.
Last edited by Anderei on Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Getting rid of the current members wouldn't fix it. Because it can't be fixed, except with another resurgence like Platinum > Colorful, which might happen in a few years. But then they'll plateau again, and then a resurgence again, etc, etc.
It can't be fixed anymore. What went wrong went wrong back in 2008 -- when they decided to stagnate the group, and not keep it alive so that each new gen was closer to their direct seniors and could learn like they used to. Then, when they did bring new ones in, they were years and years apart and didn't have the same close bond as they once did. In my opinion, obviously.
It can't be fixed anymore. What went wrong went wrong back in 2008 -- when they decided to stagnate the group, and not keep it alive so that each new gen was closer to their direct seniors and could learn like they used to. Then, when they did bring new ones in, they were years and years apart and didn't have the same close bond as they once did. In my opinion, obviously.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
I agree with you there Thea. It also makes me super bitter to this day that JunJun and LinLin never got to be senpai....
♥ Kaori • Risako ♥
♥ Sakura • Kananan • Sayuki ♥
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
I finally watched a Country Girls concert DVD, "Live Tour 2016 Haru Natsu," and wrote it up on my blog. Sadly, Manaka's not in it (illness) and won't be in any subsequent concerts. Which means I'll have to order their one previous concert DVD, "Live Tour 2015 Aki Fuyu," so I can have at least one with Manaka.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
I'd be curious to see your DVD collection, Madara!
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
Up until the 8th gen, each generation had at least one stand out voice (good or bad) that helped define the group: Abe-Nakazawa, Yaguchi, Goto, Kago-Ishikawa, Takahashi-Niigaki, Fujimoto-Tanaka, Koharu. Then Riho. Who is the "voice" of post-Riho MM? Zukki, Masaki and Duu never really put their imprint on the group in the way those others did. Mizuki, despite her reliability, is the definition of "ordinary".
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
What we're left with is a group of girls with varying degrees of talent (mostly low) who all sound kind of similar, or at least similar enough as to not really stand out from the pack. They could outright kill this group in toto, and while I'd feel some nostalgic sadness, it would only last until the next ANGERME or Kobushi release. I really haven't had this much ambivalence toward MM since the later half of the Platinum Era.</blockquote>
I've come around on the Masaki train lately. If you watch her recording videos, I think she could be the distinctive voice. She has a tone of personality in her recordings, and she's the dominant voice in unison parts. But it's obviously a producer decision to have all of their voices inoffensively meld together and not have any one voice stand out.
Up until the 8th gen, each generation had at least one stand out voice (good or bad) that helped define the group: Abe-Nakazawa, Yaguchi, Goto, Kago-Ishikawa, Takahashi-Niigaki, Fujimoto-Tanaka, Koharu. Then Riho. Who is the "voice" of post-Riho MM? Zukki, Masaki and Duu never really put their imprint on the group in the way those others did. Mizuki, despite her reliability, is the definition of "ordinary".
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
What we're left with is a group of girls with varying degrees of talent (mostly low) who all sound kind of similar, or at least similar enough as to not really stand out from the pack. They could outright kill this group in toto, and while I'd feel some nostalgic sadness, it would only last until the next ANGERME or Kobushi release. I really haven't had this much ambivalence toward MM since the later half of the Platinum Era.</blockquote>
I've come around on the Masaki train lately. If you watch her recording videos, I think she could be the distinctive voice. She has a tone of personality in her recordings, and she's the dominant voice in unison parts. But it's obviously a producer decision to have all of their voices inoffensively meld together and not have any one voice stand out.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Zoe"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">
Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
Up until the 8th gen, each generation had at least one stand out voice (good or bad) that helped define the group: Abe-Nakazawa, Yaguchi, Goto, Kago-Ishikawa, Takahashi-Niigaki, Fujimoto-Tanaka, Koharu. Then Riho. Who is the "voice" of post-Riho MM? Zukki, Masaki and Duu never really put their imprint on the group in the way those others did. Mizuki, despite her reliability, is the definition of "ordinary".
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
What we're left with is a group of girls with varying degrees of talent (mostly low) who all sound kind of similar, or at least similar enough as to not really stand out from the pack. They could outright kill this group in toto, and while I'd feel some nostalgic sadness, it would only last until the next ANGERME or Kobushi release. I really haven't had this much ambivalence toward MM since the later half of the Platinum Era.
</blockquote>
I've come around on the Masaki train lately. If you watch her recording videos, I think she could be the distinctive voice. She has a tone of personality in her recordings, and she's the dominant voice in unison parts. But it's obviously a producer decision to have all of their voices inoffensively meld together and not have any one voice stand out.
[/quote]
Masaki appeared to be trending in that direction, although it was a long time coming, and who knows how long she'll remain in the group going forward. I agree that there has been an affirmative decision to build MM into this sort of group, and it was likely made at the highest levels of management.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">
Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
Up until the 8th gen, each generation had at least one stand out voice (good or bad) that helped define the group: Abe-Nakazawa, Yaguchi, Goto, Kago-Ishikawa, Takahashi-Niigaki, Fujimoto-Tanaka, Koharu. Then Riho. Who is the "voice" of post-Riho MM? Zukki, Masaki and Duu never really put their imprint on the group in the way those others did. Mizuki, despite her reliability, is the definition of "ordinary".
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
What we're left with is a group of girls with varying degrees of talent (mostly low) who all sound kind of similar, or at least similar enough as to not really stand out from the pack. They could outright kill this group in toto, and while I'd feel some nostalgic sadness, it would only last until the next ANGERME or Kobushi release. I really haven't had this much ambivalence toward MM since the later half of the Platinum Era.
</blockquote>
I've come around on the Masaki train lately. If you watch her recording videos, I think she could be the distinctive voice. She has a tone of personality in her recordings, and she's the dominant voice in unison parts. But it's obviously a producer decision to have all of their voices inoffensively meld together and not have any one voice stand out.
[/quote]
Masaki appeared to be trending in that direction, although it was a long time coming, and who knows how long she'll remain in the group going forward. I agree that there has been an affirmative decision to build MM into this sort of group, and it was likely made at the highest levels of management.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
First of all, thanks a lot for your replies! I definitely agree with most, if not all of them. Even if there's people here who aren't as disappointed with the group as I am, reading these posts never gave me the feeling that I was overreacting or too pessimistic. That doesn't happen that often, and that's why I love you guys haha. (Of course, forums are a platform to exchange opinions and you have to accept opinions different from yours, but I'd definitely accept it if some of you said "nah I think you're too negative" compared to the "geez then just move on you hater" you get on other forums.)
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Thea" data-cid="205137" data-time="1487130066">
They had that whole "the CURRENT Musume" thing going and then when it was time for Sayu to leave, it was basically dropped. Despite keeping their sales at about the same (up until the new rule), they've basically sunk into a plateau like before.
</blockquote>
I was kind of surprised seeing them push for the "NEW MUSUME" again (regarding "BRAND NEW MORNING"). What bothers me most is that - while their budget has definitely gone up (except for the costumes...) - they're basically doing the same thing they've done 3 years ago. Maybe... trying to bring back a rebranding campaign? That sounds silly, and it does feel silly.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mizura" data-cid="205138" data-time="1487132562">
I'm guess it lets them put more effort into the other groups, and makes them sell more while still maintaining the minimum amount required for MM to maintain their flagship group status.
I'm just theorizing at this point. I also look like such an anti fan right now.
</blockquote>
Granted I'm fine with that. Country Girls get rather nice MVs all the time and ANGERME finally feels like they know what to do with them (compared to S/mileage's... weaker years). Kobushi get nice songs and with °C-ute gone I guess Tsubaki gets a bit of budget, too. Juice=Juice... will probably be house tour slaves forever. Then again it seems to be a niche that works for them. I guess they give off a feel of a house band more than a band that has to fill big halls. And hey, at least they can sing.
(Aren't we all haters...)
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TicTacAnyone" data-cid="205139" data-time="1487134183">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mizura" data-cid="205136" data-time="1487118701">
I kind of feel the same way as you about the girls. The girls could all mass graduate and I wouldn't be that upset except for Auumi, Miki, Kaede, and Reina were included.
Although I tend to like the radio rips of the songs but not the actual MVs. Stuff like Morning Misoshiro actually made me like the group again and it's probably the direction they could go in that sort of works.
The group feels too stagnant, and I know we've had a couple of graduations recently but it's still just not enough.
</blockquote>
For me, even Ayumi has already hit her peak. At least if we're speaking personality-wise... I used to see AMVs and funny compilations of her all the time--not to mention "Daaishi feeling"-- but ever since she's been pushing for a mature feel she has lost a lot of spark for me. Sure she's a great dancer, but I wouldn't miss her voice, MC or deadstare eyes.
As much as I like Mizuki and I think she's a solid member, 9ki could graduate together and it wouldn't phase me. Same with all of 10ki sans Masaki, but that's a bias thing. Though she also seems to be generally popular with wota, so I would see that hurting the group (not that Mizuki isn't popular.) Oda... I'd miss her vocals and performance level (her dancing and expressions are really good) but I wouldn't miss her quiet personality. 12ki who? Oh you mean Mariaki? and 13ki... I don't know them enough.
Overall, I agree. MM could get a complete overhaul and I'd only miss a few people, same as you guys. Though I'd feel bad on the whole scale of everyone being so medicore they needed to be replaced. MM concerts have been good, but I contribute a large amount of that to camerawork, costume, and amazing sets and lighting and formations...... Not necessarily to the girls. The last single I bought was Tsumetai... And sure that was only "2 singles ago," but it was also a little over a year ago now.
</blockquote>
Totally agree with you two. I guess we all have our eyes on certain members, but most of us can agree on one or two members that we wouldn't miss.
The last single I bought was TIKI BUN. Definitely not for the main a-side but for the weird goodness that Shabadabadoo has become. The Tsumetai single was good too, though. Definitely a grower - ENDLESS SKY has become my secret favourite of that release. However, I think what also hurts them is their slow releasing schedule. Tsumetai was 3 singles ago - it feels like it's been years already.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">
Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
[...]
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
</blockquote>
Very good point. I feel like neither Mizuki nor Sakura have stand out voices, especially since Sakura usually adopts to her singing partner. With Riho she used a lower voice, with Masaki she's getting squeeky. I guess you can hear what she herself sounds like in her birthday events and her first singing events, but that's also just a rather "normal" voice (good for idol standards though of course).
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Zoe" data-cid="205169" data-time="1487189202">
I've come around on the Masaki train lately. If you watch her recording videos, I think she could be the distinctive voice. She has a tone of personality in her recordings, and she's the dominant voice in unison parts. But it's obviously a producer decision to have all of their voices inoffensively meld together and not have any one voice stand out.
</blockquote>
She definitely sticks out, however, personally I think she sticks out in a bad way. If someone's shouty, screechy and/or (obviously) off it's Masaki (I mean Ogata or others are more likely to be off, but they aren't as loud as Masaki). I've got to be honest, I'm super biased though. Personally I despise Masaki's voice.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TicTacAnyone" data-cid="205142" data-time="1487139042">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Derby" data-cid="205140" data-time="1487138696">
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
</blockquote>
I think what would be a worse loss than the mass of members, for me, would be the history/structure of MM. MM is built on years of generations coming and going, and for the older gens to tutor the younger gens... Beyond just stage and recording things, but for personality training along with TV. Though that's sort of moot now. But MM is supposed to have a structure of seniors keeping everyone in line, and that would be lost.
And truthfully it also matters on who you replace them with. If you just bring in more bleh then yes, I'm going to say "this doesn't work either." But if you (BRING BACK TSUNKU FOR AUDITIONS OR LOOK TO GOOD KSS [Not talking against Kaede here, just saying don't waste good potential]) get the right girls in there the group would be so different. But you couldn't call that group Morning Musume anymore.
</blockquote>
The bolded part, yes, definitely. The senpai system is already broken and hurts them more than it helps, but the right people could actually make a difference. I'm very positive that under Yossy 9th and 10th gen would have developed much stronger characters. But well, that wasn't possible to start with. Platinum Era brought us nice performances, but it ruined a lot. (Sorry, I'm really negative about PE. It took me ages to go back and listen to album songs and b-sides and to realize that the releases were actually quite good. Everything not related to their songs though...)
Now that neither 9th nor 10th gen learned "proper" idol behaviour they can't teach it to their juniors. In retrospective I also wonder what Sayumi did. I mean she did help some members with their personalities but others were left alone completely.
Back to the additions that matter, we might still stuffer from 12th gen's announcement. They just were so underwhelming after their first appearance (the first was still exciting, of course, but then...). They're in the group for 2 years now - can you believe it? 2 years! Still feels like they were announced just weeks before Kaede and Yoko. Their performance ability was weak, aside from Ogata who was somewhat of a natural their talking skills were weak, their general appearance was bland. At least they were pretty, though. Guess that was exactly what a certain kind of wota was looking for.
I mean they've grown on me, a lot. But as a generation? Probably the weakest ever. Even weaker than Koharu, because while Koharu couldn't sing and was annoying at least she knew how to get attention and not sit in the back, waiting for her turn.
Once again, a good senpai can help a lot. Dude, did Sayumi learn from Rika. Does anyone remember how awkward Sayumi was at first? That she was basically a bullied middle school girl? And Eri, man. These Haromoni skits with Yuuko got her an actual character. Something current members would benefit from as well. Basically, all of them. Even Aika was somewhat interesting when she just joined, and I'd say this goes back to Yossy. With Yossy gone Aika melted into the background like the rest of 8th gen. Ai never really reached out to them so that was their destiny. That's when strict senior relations actually hurt the development of members. Mizuki does the same. Granted... her sub-leaders don't help much either.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Thea" data-cid="205160" data-time="1487179123">
Getting rid of the current members wouldn't fix it. Because it can't be fixed, except with another resurgence like Platinum > Colorful, which might happen in a few years. But then they'll plateau again, and then a resurgence again, etc, etc.
It can't be fixed anymore. What went wrong went wrong back in 2008 -- when they decided to stagnate the group, and not keep it alive so that each new gen was closer to their direct seniors and could learn like they used to. Then, when they did bring new ones in, they were years and years apart and didn't have the same close bond as they once did. In my opinion, obviously.
</blockquote>
I guess we can never go back to what we liked about the group's senior-junior-system. You'd basically need a natural conversation master in the position of a senior to somewhat patch it. But how can they be able to speak up if they never learn it from their seniors? Additionally to the fact that they simply don't add a Kei or Miki anymore, someone older who can actually work it. 14yo cuties just look better sitting in the background and looking pretty.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Thea" data-cid="205137" data-time="1487130066">
They had that whole "the CURRENT Musume" thing going and then when it was time for Sayu to leave, it was basically dropped. Despite keeping their sales at about the same (up until the new rule), they've basically sunk into a plateau like before.
</blockquote>
I was kind of surprised seeing them push for the "NEW MUSUME" again (regarding "BRAND NEW MORNING"). What bothers me most is that - while their budget has definitely gone up (except for the costumes...) - they're basically doing the same thing they've done 3 years ago. Maybe... trying to bring back a rebranding campaign? That sounds silly, and it does feel silly.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mizura" data-cid="205138" data-time="1487132562">
I'm guess it lets them put more effort into the other groups, and makes them sell more while still maintaining the minimum amount required for MM to maintain their flagship group status.
I'm just theorizing at this point. I also look like such an anti fan right now.
</blockquote>
Granted I'm fine with that. Country Girls get rather nice MVs all the time and ANGERME finally feels like they know what to do with them (compared to S/mileage's... weaker years). Kobushi get nice songs and with °C-ute gone I guess Tsubaki gets a bit of budget, too. Juice=Juice... will probably be house tour slaves forever. Then again it seems to be a niche that works for them. I guess they give off a feel of a house band more than a band that has to fill big halls. And hey, at least they can sing.
(Aren't we all haters...
)<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TicTacAnyone" data-cid="205139" data-time="1487134183">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mizura" data-cid="205136" data-time="1487118701">
I kind of feel the same way as you about the girls. The girls could all mass graduate and I wouldn't be that upset except for Auumi, Miki, Kaede, and Reina were included.
Although I tend to like the radio rips of the songs but not the actual MVs. Stuff like Morning Misoshiro actually made me like the group again and it's probably the direction they could go in that sort of works.
The group feels too stagnant, and I know we've had a couple of graduations recently but it's still just not enough.
</blockquote>
For me, even Ayumi has already hit her peak. At least if we're speaking personality-wise... I used to see AMVs and funny compilations of her all the time--not to mention "Daaishi feeling"-- but ever since she's been pushing for a mature feel she has lost a lot of spark for me. Sure she's a great dancer, but I wouldn't miss her voice, MC or deadstare eyes.
As much as I like Mizuki and I think she's a solid member, 9ki could graduate together and it wouldn't phase me. Same with all of 10ki sans Masaki, but that's a bias thing. Though she also seems to be generally popular with wota, so I would see that hurting the group (not that Mizuki isn't popular.) Oda... I'd miss her vocals and performance level (her dancing and expressions are really good) but I wouldn't miss her quiet personality. 12ki who? Oh you mean Mariaki? and 13ki... I don't know them enough.
Overall, I agree. MM could get a complete overhaul and I'd only miss a few people, same as you guys. Though I'd feel bad on the whole scale of everyone being so medicore they needed to be replaced. MM concerts have been good, but I contribute a large amount of that to camerawork, costume, and amazing sets and lighting and formations...... Not necessarily to the girls. The last single I bought was Tsumetai... And sure that was only "2 singles ago," but it was also a little over a year ago now.
</blockquote>
Totally agree with you two. I guess we all have our eyes on certain members, but most of us can agree on one or two members that we wouldn't miss.
The last single I bought was TIKI BUN. Definitely not for the main a-side but for the weird goodness that Shabadabadoo has become. The Tsumetai single was good too, though. Definitely a grower - ENDLESS SKY has become my secret favourite of that release. However, I think what also hurts them is their slow releasing schedule. Tsumetai was 3 singles ago - it feels like it's been years already.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">
Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
[...]
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
</blockquote>
Very good point. I feel like neither Mizuki nor Sakura have stand out voices, especially since Sakura usually adopts to her singing partner. With Riho she used a lower voice, with Masaki she's getting squeeky. I guess you can hear what she herself sounds like in her birthday events and her first singing events, but that's also just a rather "normal" voice (good for idol standards though of course).
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Zoe" data-cid="205169" data-time="1487189202">
I've come around on the Masaki train lately. If you watch her recording videos, I think she could be the distinctive voice. She has a tone of personality in her recordings, and she's the dominant voice in unison parts. But it's obviously a producer decision to have all of their voices inoffensively meld together and not have any one voice stand out.
</blockquote>
She definitely sticks out, however, personally I think she sticks out in a bad way. If someone's shouty, screechy and/or (obviously) off it's Masaki (I mean Ogata or others are more likely to be off, but they aren't as loud as Masaki). I've got to be honest, I'm super biased though. Personally I despise Masaki's voice.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="TicTacAnyone" data-cid="205142" data-time="1487139042">
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Derby" data-cid="205140" data-time="1487138696">
How would you guys feel if instead of graduating as they would normally do, all of them excluding 13ki graduated together and were replaced by 11 new girls?
Not trying to create an argument with those who said everyone could leave simultaneousely and wouldn't care but wouldn't you still feel like "no this is not right", "no I don't like this either"?
</blockquote>
I think what would be a worse loss than the mass of members, for me, would be the history/structure of MM. MM is built on years of generations coming and going, and for the older gens to tutor the younger gens... Beyond just stage and recording things, but for personality training along with TV. Though that's sort of moot now. But MM is supposed to have a structure of seniors keeping everyone in line, and that would be lost.
And truthfully it also matters on who you replace them with. If you just bring in more bleh then yes, I'm going to say "this doesn't work either." But if you (BRING BACK TSUNKU FOR AUDITIONS OR LOOK TO GOOD KSS [Not talking against Kaede here, just saying don't waste good potential]) get the right girls in there the group would be so different. But you couldn't call that group Morning Musume anymore.
</blockquote>
The bolded part, yes, definitely. The senpai system is already broken and hurts them more than it helps, but the right people could actually make a difference. I'm very positive that under Yossy 9th and 10th gen would have developed much stronger characters. But well, that wasn't possible to start with. Platinum Era brought us nice performances, but it ruined a lot. (Sorry, I'm really negative about PE. It took me ages to go back and listen to album songs and b-sides and to realize that the releases were actually quite good. Everything not related to their songs though...)
Now that neither 9th nor 10th gen learned "proper" idol behaviour they can't teach it to their juniors. In retrospective I also wonder what Sayumi did. I mean she did help some members with their personalities but others were left alone completely.
Back to the additions that matter, we might still stuffer from 12th gen's announcement. They just were so underwhelming after their first appearance (the first was still exciting, of course, but then...). They're in the group for 2 years now - can you believe it? 2 years! Still feels like they were announced just weeks before Kaede and Yoko. Their performance ability was weak, aside from Ogata who was somewhat of a natural their talking skills were weak, their general appearance was bland. At least they were pretty, though. Guess that was exactly what a certain kind of wota was looking for.
I mean they've grown on me, a lot. But as a generation? Probably the weakest ever. Even weaker than Koharu, because while Koharu couldn't sing and was annoying at least she knew how to get attention and not sit in the back, waiting for her turn.
Once again, a good senpai can help a lot. Dude, did Sayumi learn from Rika. Does anyone remember how awkward Sayumi was at first? That she was basically a bullied middle school girl? And Eri, man. These Haromoni skits with Yuuko got her an actual character. Something current members would benefit from as well. Basically, all of them. Even Aika was somewhat interesting when she just joined, and I'd say this goes back to Yossy. With Yossy gone Aika melted into the background like the rest of 8th gen. Ai never really reached out to them so that was their destiny. That's when strict senior relations actually hurt the development of members. Mizuki does the same. Granted... her sub-leaders don't help much either.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Thea" data-cid="205160" data-time="1487179123">
Getting rid of the current members wouldn't fix it. Because it can't be fixed, except with another resurgence like Platinum > Colorful, which might happen in a few years. But then they'll plateau again, and then a resurgence again, etc, etc.
It can't be fixed anymore. What went wrong went wrong back in 2008 -- when they decided to stagnate the group, and not keep it alive so that each new gen was closer to their direct seniors and could learn like they used to. Then, when they did bring new ones in, they were years and years apart and didn't have the same close bond as they once did. In my opinion, obviously.
</blockquote>
I guess we can never go back to what we liked about the group's senior-junior-system. You'd basically need a natural conversation master in the position of a senior to somewhat patch it. But how can they be able to speak up if they never learn it from their seniors? Additionally to the fact that they simply don't add a Kei or Miki anymore, someone older who can actually work it. 14yo cuties just look better sitting in the background and looking pretty.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
I'm on mobile so it's too much to quote. I know this won't happen, but I kind of want an experienced senpai to get added to MM temporarily. Somebody like Airi or Chisato to be what Momoko was to Country Girls. Without her, Country Girls would be in a worse position than they are now, and doing something like that could help the group out and still keep that Senpai-Kouhai thing they want to keep doing.
Formerly Mizura
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Thea"]
Getting rid of the current members wouldn't fix it. Because it can't be fixed, except with another resurgence like Platinum > Colorful, which might happen in a few years. But then they'll plateau again, and then a resurgence again, etc, etc.
It can't be fixed anymore. What went wrong went wrong back in 2008 -- when they decided to stagnate the group, and not keep it alive so that each new gen was closer to their direct seniors and could learn like they used to. Then, when they did bring new ones in, they were years and years apart and didn't have the same close bond as they once did. In my opinion, obviously.
[/quote]
The only thing I'd like to see right now to prevent that is the girls graduating in bigger numbers. Maybe not all of them in a matter of 2 years almost like the platinum era did, because they would find another 2 4-member generation tha would probably stay as long as 9-10ki. But look at Riho and Kanon graduating one by one and no other graduation has been announced ever since, if they graduated maybe 2 girls, then 1, then 3, and so with a considerable ammount of time in between and possibly with a shorter lifespan within the group (Mizuki and Erina are in their 6th year, basically next year they'll join the long tenure club) the life in the group could be more active. I'm against the company forcing them to graduate but also against some members who don't really bring anything to the table staying there for as long as possible.
[quote="DonJuan"]
(Of course, forums are a platform to exchange opinions and you have to accept opinions different from yours, but I'd definitely accept it if some of you said "nah I think you're too negative" compared to the "geez then just move on you hater" you get on other forums.)
-
She definitely sticks out, however, personally I think she sticks out in a bad way. If someone's shouty, screechy and/or (obviously) off it's Masaki (I mean Ogata or others are more likely to be off, but they aren't as loud as Masaki). I've got to be honest, I'm super biased though. Personally I despise Masaki's voice.
-
Once again, a good senpai can help a lot. Dude, did Sayumi learn from Rika. Does anyone remember how awkward Sayumi was at first? That she was basically a bullied middle school girl? And Eri, man. These Haromoni skits with Yuuko got her an actual character. Something current members would benefit from as well. Basically, all of them. Even Aika was somewhat interesting when she just joined, and I'd say this goes back to Yossy. With Yossy gone Aika melted into the background like the rest of 8th gen. Ai never really reached out to them so that was their destiny. That's when strict senior relations actually hurt the development of members. Mizuki does the same. Granted... her sub-leaders don't help much either.
[/quote]
I think people in this forum are generally older
I've had that same thought of Masaki probably ever since I became a fan, just recently it started to piss me off less than how it used to.
People here have said already they don't gent much TV appereances and I think, since maybe they just don't want to produce a show like haromoni because they probably don't think it's worth it, they could instead drop that useless idiom corner from Hello!Station (not even sure if they still do that) and have the members produce their own skits, with their own dialogues and such. That would at least get them to work together and show some character.
Getting rid of the current members wouldn't fix it. Because it can't be fixed, except with another resurgence like Platinum > Colorful, which might happen in a few years. But then they'll plateau again, and then a resurgence again, etc, etc.
It can't be fixed anymore. What went wrong went wrong back in 2008 -- when they decided to stagnate the group, and not keep it alive so that each new gen was closer to their direct seniors and could learn like they used to. Then, when they did bring new ones in, they were years and years apart and didn't have the same close bond as they once did. In my opinion, obviously.
[/quote]
The only thing I'd like to see right now to prevent that is the girls graduating in bigger numbers. Maybe not all of them in a matter of 2 years almost like the platinum era did, because they would find another 2 4-member generation tha would probably stay as long as 9-10ki. But look at Riho and Kanon graduating one by one and no other graduation has been announced ever since, if they graduated maybe 2 girls, then 1, then 3, and so with a considerable ammount of time in between and possibly with a shorter lifespan within the group (Mizuki and Erina are in their 6th year, basically next year they'll join the long tenure club) the life in the group could be more active. I'm against the company forcing them to graduate but also against some members who don't really bring anything to the table staying there for as long as possible.
[quote="DonJuan"]
(Of course, forums are a platform to exchange opinions and you have to accept opinions different from yours, but I'd definitely accept it if some of you said "nah I think you're too negative" compared to the "geez then just move on you hater" you get on other forums.)
-
She definitely sticks out, however, personally I think she sticks out in a bad way. If someone's shouty, screechy and/or (obviously) off it's Masaki (I mean Ogata or others are more likely to be off, but they aren't as loud as Masaki). I've got to be honest, I'm super biased though. Personally I despise Masaki's voice.
-
Once again, a good senpai can help a lot. Dude, did Sayumi learn from Rika. Does anyone remember how awkward Sayumi was at first? That she was basically a bullied middle school girl? And Eri, man. These Haromoni skits with Yuuko got her an actual character. Something current members would benefit from as well. Basically, all of them. Even Aika was somewhat interesting when she just joined, and I'd say this goes back to Yossy. With Yossy gone Aika melted into the background like the rest of 8th gen. Ai never really reached out to them so that was their destiny. That's when strict senior relations actually hurt the development of members. Mizuki does the same. Granted... her sub-leaders don't help much either.
[/quote]
I think people in this forum are generally older
I've had that same thought of Masaki probably ever since I became a fan, just recently it started to piss me off less than how it used to.
People here have said already they don't gent much TV appereances and I think, since maybe they just don't want to produce a show like haromoni because they probably don't think it's worth it, they could instead drop that useless idiom corner from Hello!Station (not even sure if they still do that) and have the members produce their own skits, with their own dialogues and such. That would at least get them to work together and show some character.
Last edited by Derby on Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
HeyRe: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Instead of the idiom corner they now have little "game show" corners, e.g. MM usually has English Time, Angerme has been having Sports Time, and such. Last year Nonaka won the chance to do a solo during the MM spring tour (which she chose to do with Kanon) from winning it, I think?
Last edited by MejraThea on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
It's not worth their time to produce a real show because idol shows have a very niche audience, air late at night even by Japanese standards, and have low ratings. Even AKB48's show airs late and doesn't pull in impressive ratings. No point when they can just send the girls out for half a day and film them talking and get the same results (I'm talking about Girls Night Out for those who aren't familiar with it). Low effort content has proven to work, so there's been no incentive for them to switch it up. I will give them props for going full youtube. Cheaper to produce and they get some ad revenue by doing so.
The truth is, most idols don't net notable tv appearances, because the idol boom is done for everyone who doesn't have a 46 in their group name. AKB48 has peaked and has pretty much had to kill their sister groups (who have seen declining sales) to keep those million sellers and they're struggling to sell out concert tickets. You'll see even girls from the 48 groups and other decently popular groups on some of those super basic morning talk shows you see MM on. The difference is that H!P girls kind of have a rep for being bad at variety even when they're more experienced members. This happened to C-ute a couple years ago and a lot of people noted they seemed really shy and uncomfortable for a group that had been around for ages.
[quote="DonJuan"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">
Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
[...]
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
</blockquote>
Very good point. I feel like neither Mizuki nor Sakura have stand out voices, especially since Sakura usually adopts to her singing partner. With Riho she used a lower voice, with Masaki she's getting squeeky. I guess you can hear what she herself sounds like in her birthday events and her first singing events, but that's also just a rather "normal" voice (good for idol standards though of course).
[/quote]
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
@Thea, she did win the solo. I don't know why they just don't have a regular rotating solo corner, like Angerme has done since they were S/mileage (although they do less of it now that they're bigger). I think we'd all be okay with one of the a-sides that gets performed at every single concert getting switched out for one solo per concert.
The truth is, most idols don't net notable tv appearances, because the idol boom is done for everyone who doesn't have a 46 in their group name. AKB48 has peaked and has pretty much had to kill their sister groups (who have seen declining sales) to keep those million sellers and they're struggling to sell out concert tickets. You'll see even girls from the 48 groups and other decently popular groups on some of those super basic morning talk shows you see MM on. The difference is that H!P girls kind of have a rep for being bad at variety even when they're more experienced members. This happened to C-ute a couple years ago and a lot of people noted they seemed really shy and uncomfortable for a group that had been around for ages.
[quote="DonJuan"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205141" data-time="1487138829">
Something has bugged me about MM since Riho left, and I couldn't pinpoint what it was, but it hit me while listening to Jealousy: MM has no signature voice for the first time in their history. Say what you want about Riho's singing, but she had an immediately recognizable sound.
[...]
The one that bugs me the most, though, is Sakura. She was supposed to be that voice. Sadly, she stopped improving after about two years, and if anything, has regressed recently. It's like she's being dragged down to the mean. I was hoping Kaede would swing the pendulum back in the direction of "talented" and maybe even push Sakura to up her game a bit, but, alas, it appears that is not to be, either.
</blockquote>
Very good point. I feel like neither Mizuki nor Sakura have stand out voices, especially since Sakura usually adopts to her singing partner. With Riho she used a lower voice, with Masaki she's getting squeeky. I guess you can hear what she herself sounds like in her birthday events and her first singing events, but that's also just a rather "normal" voice (good for idol standards though of course).
[/quote]
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
@Thea, she did win the solo. I don't know why they just don't have a regular rotating solo corner, like Angerme has done since they were S/mileage (although they do less of it now that they're bigger). I think we'd all be okay with one of the a-sides that gets performed at every single concert getting switched out for one solo per concert.
Last edited by Anderei on Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Anderei"]
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
[/quote]
<div>Even better would be a few decent voices that stand out. "Good for an idol voices" are all that most like me have been wanting for years.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Which brings me to another issue. Whenever someone says that the group is in serious need of singing talent, they are almost always met with some form of "idols are more than just singers, though. They need to be good at all those other idol things, too." The implication being that girls are selected based on talents besides singing. Fair enough. We can argue about how much singing talent should be considered for prospective idols, but based on what I'm reading from people who see far more of MM17 outside of their music activities than I do, most of these girls aren't so good at "all the other idol stuff" either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So if most of MM17 sucks at singing and all of the other idol stuff, what is the point of them? If these crappy singers don't have these other idol qualities, why not add a few good singers, and see if they can be taught all the other idol stuff? </div>
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
[/quote]
<div>Even better would be a few decent voices that stand out. "Good for an idol voices" are all that most like me have been wanting for years.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Which brings me to another issue. Whenever someone says that the group is in serious need of singing talent, they are almost always met with some form of "idols are more than just singers, though. They need to be good at all those other idol things, too." The implication being that girls are selected based on talents besides singing. Fair enough. We can argue about how much singing talent should be considered for prospective idols, but based on what I'm reading from people who see far more of MM17 outside of their music activities than I do, most of these girls aren't so good at "all the other idol stuff" either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So if most of MM17 sucks at singing and all of the other idol stuff, what is the point of them? If these crappy singers don't have these other idol qualities, why not add a few good singers, and see if they can be taught all the other idol stuff? </div>
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Kitaoji's links in post #1484 for the recent sports festival events have been "removed by the user." I only watched a couple of them, saving them till I had more time and now...gone! :(
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="JPope"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Anderei" data-cid="205185" data-time="1487214440">
<div>
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
[/quote]
<div>Even better would be a few decent voices that stand out. "Good for an idol voices" are all that most like me have been wanting for years.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Which brings me to another issue. Whenever someone says that the group is in serious need of singing talent, they are almost always met with some form of "idols are more than just singers, though. They need to be good at all those other idol things, too." The implication being that girls are selected based on talents besides singing. Fair enough. We can argue about how much singing talent should be considered for prospective idols, but based on what I'm reading from people who see far more of MM17 outside of their music activities than I do, most of these girls aren't so good at "all the other idol stuff" either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So if most of MM17 sucks at singing and all of the other idol stuff, what is the point of them? If these crappy singers don't have these other idol qualities, why not add a few good singers, and see if they can be taught all the other idol stuff? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Being cute is mostly what they're talking about when they say other stuff.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Anderei" data-cid="205185" data-time="1487214440">
<div>
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
[/quote]
<div>Even better would be a few decent voices that stand out. "Good for an idol voices" are all that most like me have been wanting for years.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Which brings me to another issue. Whenever someone says that the group is in serious need of singing talent, they are almost always met with some form of "idols are more than just singers, though. They need to be good at all those other idol things, too." The implication being that girls are selected based on talents besides singing. Fair enough. We can argue about how much singing talent should be considered for prospective idols, but based on what I'm reading from people who see far more of MM17 outside of their music activities than I do, most of these girls aren't so good at "all the other idol stuff" either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So if most of MM17 sucks at singing and all of the other idol stuff, what is the point of them? If these crappy singers don't have these other idol qualities, why not add a few good singers, and see if they can be taught all the other idol stuff? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Being cute is mostly what they're talking about when they say other stuff.
<p class="bbc_center">
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
I found a video with examples of all the girls singing.
I didn't watch it all cause its too long but I did watch my to favorites.
Eripon has gotten a lot better. If she didn't have to dance I'm sure she might be better though.
Miki still needs work but I definitely think in time she'll be one of the main singers.
I didn't watch it all cause its too long but I did watch my to favorites.
Eripon has gotten a lot better. If she didn't have to dance I'm sure she might be better though.
Miki still needs work but I definitely think in time she'll be one of the main singers.
Made by Haru!
-
TicTacAnyone
- ANGERME
- Posts: 2519
- Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:38 am
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Has anyone in the history of MM been treated as badly as Eripon? Even Ogata got a solo line (though talking) in Oh My Wish.
They finally started giving her lines in singles and concerts in 2015...
They finally started giving her lines in singles and concerts in 2015...
Last edited by TicTacAnyone on Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
Basically all members of the background four (Ikuta, Kanon, Haruna, Duu) until Sayumi graduated. TIKI BUN was more or less when Duu started getting lines, Duu and Kanon had Oh my wish (and well, Haruna got some lines if you want to count that).
I don't know, I never felt that Ikuta got it especially bad.
Oh, and in all of MM's history? Junjun and Linlin.
I don't know, I never felt that Ikuta got it especially bad.
Oh, and in all of MM's history? Junjun and Linlin.
Last edited by DonJuan on Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="Anderei"]
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205199" data-time="1487229658">
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Anderei" data-cid="205185" data-time="1487214440">
<div>
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
[/quote]
<div>Even better would be a few decent voices that stand out. "Good for an idol voices" are all that most like me have been wanting for years.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Which brings me to another issue. Whenever someone says that the group is in serious need of singing talent, they are almost always met with some form of "idols are more than just singers, though. They need to be good at all those other idol things, too." The implication being that girls are selected based on talents besides singing. Fair enough. We can argue about how much singing talent should be considered for prospective idols, but based on what I'm reading from people who see far more of MM17 outside of their music activities than I do, most of these girls aren't so good at "all the other idol stuff" either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So if most of MM17 sucks at singing and all of the other idol stuff, what is the point of them? If these crappy singers don't have these other idol qualities, why not add a few good singers, and see if they can be taught all the other idol stuff? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Being cute is mostly what they're talking about when they say other stuff.
</div>
</blockquote>
Kinda what I figured, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JPope" data-cid="205199" data-time="1487229658">
<div>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Anderei" data-cid="205185" data-time="1487214440">
<div>
MM could stand to benefit from a few normal 'good for an idol voices' since they've really only got like two. Most of the girls aren't really ahead of the curve. A decent normal voice is better than a bunch of bad standout ones.
[/quote]
<div>Even better would be a few decent voices that stand out. "Good for an idol voices" are all that most like me have been wanting for years.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Which brings me to another issue. Whenever someone says that the group is in serious need of singing talent, they are almost always met with some form of "idols are more than just singers, though. They need to be good at all those other idol things, too." The implication being that girls are selected based on talents besides singing. Fair enough. We can argue about how much singing talent should be considered for prospective idols, but based on what I'm reading from people who see far more of MM17 outside of their music activities than I do, most of these girls aren't so good at "all the other idol stuff" either.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>So if most of MM17 sucks at singing and all of the other idol stuff, what is the point of them? If these crappy singers don't have these other idol qualities, why not add a few good singers, and see if they can be taught all the other idol stuff? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Being cute is mostly what they're talking about when they say other stuff.
</div>
</blockquote>
Kinda what I figured, but I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Jpope On Jpop! blog
Re: Hello!Spam :: 2017 ~Dancing Mode~
[quote="TicTacAnyone"]
Has anyone in the history of MM been treated as badly as Eripon? Even Ogata got a solo line (though talking) in Oh My Wish.
They finally started giving her lines in singles and concerts in 2015...
[/quote]
[quote="DonJuan"]
Basically all members of the background four (Ikuta, Kanon, Haruna, Duu) until Sayumi graduated. TIKI BUN was more or less when Duu started getting lines, Duu and Kanon had Oh my wish (and well, Haruna got some lines if you want to count that).
I don't know, I never felt that Ikuta got it especially bad.
Oh, and in all of MM's history? Junjun and Linlin.
[/quote]
Yeah, Erina is definitely not the worst treated member. Kanon only got Oh my wish to reward her for losing weight, and her graduation single because of the obvious. If Kanon was still there, she'd be back to the usual shtick. Duu was already immensely popular, even before she started getting lines, so we pretty much knew she would go somewhere. I would say Harunan and Erina get the same treatment, it's just a toss up of which one is going to get the pity line this time. (I'm talking about '11 ~ '15, I can't evaluate '16 past Utakata and Sexy Cat)
But as for JunLin, definitely way worse than Erina. Unlike Erina or JunJun, LinLin could out sing pretty much all of both lineups (minus Reina and Ai) and she still got stuck with the same amount as JunJun because she was Chinese.
Has anyone in the history of MM been treated as badly as Eripon? Even Ogata got a solo line (though talking) in Oh My Wish.
They finally started giving her lines in singles and concerts in 2015...
[/quote]
[quote="DonJuan"]
Basically all members of the background four (Ikuta, Kanon, Haruna, Duu) until Sayumi graduated. TIKI BUN was more or less when Duu started getting lines, Duu and Kanon had Oh my wish (and well, Haruna got some lines if you want to count that).
I don't know, I never felt that Ikuta got it especially bad.
Oh, and in all of MM's history? Junjun and Linlin.
[/quote]
Yeah, Erina is definitely not the worst treated member. Kanon only got Oh my wish to reward her for losing weight, and her graduation single because of the obvious. If Kanon was still there, she'd be back to the usual shtick. Duu was already immensely popular, even before she started getting lines, so we pretty much knew she would go somewhere. I would say Harunan and Erina get the same treatment, it's just a toss up of which one is going to get the pity line this time. (I'm talking about '11 ~ '15, I can't evaluate '16 past Utakata and Sexy Cat)
But as for JunLin, definitely way worse than Erina. Unlike Erina or JunJun, LinLin could out sing pretty much all of both lineups (minus Reina and Ai) and she still got stuck with the same amount as JunJun because she was Chinese.
Last edited by MejraThea on Fri Feb 17, 2017 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.